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Caravan Movement Between Campaigns (Confirmed?)


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Lots of people have seen the new website, but it seems as if they've introduced at least one new concept that I picked up on.

 

Under Wealth please take note of...

  • "Player-Driven Economy: Fill your shops with vendors, establish trade routes between worlds and build a mercantile empire!"
  • "Resources & Caravans: Harvest stone, iron and timber from quarries, mines and mills - and use caravan animals to move them within and between worlds.

Previously the assumed nature of caravans was a mechanic for moving bulky non-finished (or sometimes mass finished) goods between cities or POI's. As tempting targets for ambushes, this transportation mechanic introduces to the game what I would consider PVP flashpoints. 

 

The new website seems to lead me to believe that transportation between Campaigns might be a real thing for merchant-princes to accomplish within Crowfall. This also seems plausible for another reason; they wanted to do it in Shadowbane! I remember when they spoke briefly, but never implemented, the idea of allowing players to travel between servers. While this is not exactly what they are introducing here, the notion that caravans can travel between worlds means they are possibly working on making this possible (future module!?).

 

From an economic standpoint a change of this magnitude might indicate a need to introduce a game-driven central marketplace. How would players from one world know that a player in another world needed something? Vassals might transmit their listed goods and trades could be conducted across vast distances permitting the necessity of a caravan to make the trip between worlds.

 

I for one, do not see how they could integrate this concept of caravan-world-hopping with the rudimentary and unconnected economy they've introduced thus far. Everyone's "thralls" do not communicate with one another and thus finding trades would need to be done in person. Cross-world trades would need to rely on external websites or forum chatter to truly be useful (unless they introduced their own global market place). We are missing something if this is indeed a new feature.

 

What do you guys think of think of inter-campaign commerce seemingly being introduced by the new front page?

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The player driven economy part may just be referring to trading between EKs. But the part about the caravans is interesting and is more strongly indicative of what you suggest. Could we use caravans to transport materials between EKs? I suppose so, but they haven't made any mention of caravans being used in EKs.

 

So if they intend for us to trade between CWs, how would that be implemented? I would think that trading would have to be limited to be within the same band. No trading between God's Reach and the Dregs. But even then, that would threaten to upset the balance of each CW. Large guilds could put players in multiple campaigns and funnel all resources to a single campaign in an effort to dominate that world. 

 

With the recent mention of portals, maybe this is what they will be used for. If they are static locations where goods can be transported between worlds, then they become another POI. But to your point, outside of large guilds trading with themselves, how will these interactions work? And more to the point, why would anyone do them, other than the aforementioned large guilds trading with themselves? Might CWs be low on certain resources and rich in others, creating a natural need for inter-campaign commerce?

 

It's an interesting idea to be sure and, given their recent announcement about something new to tell us that will tie everything together, perhaps this is related to that.

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I am no programming expert but I think doing caravan between different world(server), as it were would bring unnecessary complexity and delay the game. I think what they meant by worlds is more along the line cart your stuff to and from Point of Interest to your castle. Or between different castle within a campaign, that make alot more senses than between server.  Trading between server would bring more trouble than its worth. 

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Interesting idea.  It would make a lot of interesting game play.  

 

There are a couple challenges to overcome though:

 

1. CW's as short lived worlds and not even on the same life line as each other.

 

2. It could create a scenario where goods move from CW to CW indefinitely giving an advantage to uncle bob.

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it just seems to me that the more you give or promise people, the more they want. This game has so many cool & fun features, it's hard to name the all. I hope they come through for the main stuff & don't bother with any complicated, time-wasters that will not make or break the game.

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I think you guys are wrong about assuming they meant transportation to or from the EKs with Caravans. Here's why...

 

Exportation of goods to the EK is a reward for victory in the CWs (also remember that CW is shorthand for "Campaign Worlds". If they allow for caravans to deliver goods to the EK, what becomes the point of winning any of the CWs? They've already explained the mechanics for getting goods out of the CWs and into the EKs and caravans were never once mentioned.

Edited by scree
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Seeing as a lot of people seem to be confused over the specific meaning of the inter-"world" caravans. Here is the direct quote:

 

"Harvest stone, iron and timber from quarries, mines and mills - and use caravan animals to transport them within and between worlds"

 

also note their choice concerning the oxfordian comma ;)

 

Anyway, there is another important quote:

 

"Fill your shops with vendors, establish trade routes between worlds and build a mercantile empire!"

 

These two quotes can certainly imply either CWs or EKs (Campaigns Worlds and Eternal Kingdoms respectively). However: there are 2 big reasons and 1 semantic one that make me believe that this ONLY means transport between CWs.

 

1: It is not viable in the current game design to allow trading between EKs and CWs. This means that people who payed more during kick-starter have an unfair early economic advantage, as well as anyone else who buys fortresses and the like later on.

 

2: there is already a system that allows resources to be brought into the EKs(embargoes) so it doesn't make sense to have an additional system; especially when adding this new system can just be used to trade between CWs anyway using the EKs as a middleman (unless that is the intended design, which runs into the P2W problem of point 1, but does make slightly more sense)

 

and my semantics reason: I have never seen the EKs reffered to as worlds, whereas CWs.... it is in their title.

 

Hopefully I have cleared up any confusion, and if not, started a fun argument. Either way, I'm ready for a good-long-chat!!!

Edited by TragicNumberOne

Might I interest you in a low-interest mortgage?

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It's too early too read too much into a very broad description, nothing that's been said so far points to direct CW to CW transfers. 

 

Conceptually it could be cool if they did something like tournaments where you started with say 4 or 8 campaign worlds, and the victors on those worlds would be matched up against eachother till one was left standing. 

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Since the CWs are the center of Crowfall where all things begin there and are build some might not have noticed that the secondary part (the EK) is really just a repurposing of CW assets.

 

One of the biggest example of this is the parcel system. In the CW it's how they are created procedurally, in the EK we have control over it. Like wise while reading the part under wealth the topic moved from one type of conquest (the winning of a CW) to another...economical conquest.

 

I see this directly speaking to EKs primarily because the CW economy is temporary and fleeting. However, in the EK the economy "war" is dependent not on the struggles with on a single EK but how we will compete against OTHER EKs. Thus moving freeling between them has been a topic for us interested in that part of the game.

 

Portals where finally mentioned and seems very natural to me to again repurpose the caravan system to transport good from one EK to another thus forcing players to interact more.

 

This leads me to believe that during the up coming announcements we'll hear something about how safe (or lack thereof of) we can really make our EKs. Possibly have "safe zone" (no PvP) and "non-safe zone" (PvP) parcels. I can see Portals being in the non-safe zones if this is true.

Edited by Keaggan
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I mean "technically" you could argue you bring resources over to that one portal that keeps your stuff safe until the end of the campaign via caravans then use those resources in other worlds but idk. Caravans for the most part I think will be an independent campaign thing for transporting, but the resources themselves can be distributed in other campaigns or EKs.

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Keep in mind the centaur lore - there is some kind of inter world travel prior to becoming a crow/dying in your mortal life(that's how I interpreted it, at least):

 

Our Empire stands unrivalled. One hundred Worlds, ours by right. If not for the Hunger, we would surely rule the Realms of Man. In the name of Valkyn, the All-Father, of course!

 

Seems like a soft hint that the worlds are or were more connected than one may think at first glance. Edited by yamix
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I have a slightly different spin on the Caravan between CWs hypothetical -

If players aren't happy with rolling the dice on the Embargo they can attempt to move their goods to the EKs via Caravan but they have to pass through each subsequent (ruleset) band to get there.  If they start in the Dregs they must pass though The Shadows, The Infected, and finally God's Reach, before their Caravan arrives at the EKs.

 

Implications:

  1. Would players be able to move with the Caravan between CWs?
  • If yes, is it a one-way trip, implying that they abandoning their current campaign. 
  • If no, do players have to arrange for their allies on the other CW to receive the Caravan? 
  • Does this mean guilds benefit from having players stretched across multiple CWs.

      2.  If players can move a Caravan to a newly minted CW, does this not circumvent the import restrictions at the risk of creating an Uncle-Bob scenario.

      3.  If players are allowed to interlope through CWs, would there be randomized entrance and exit points, or would players get to create the portals. 

      4.  Would there be a resource cost to open and maintain a portal.

Luke I am your Uncle... Bob.  What, my sister Padmè never mentioned me?

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Any kind of inter-CW or CW:EK trade caravans violate the basic tenets of campaign isolation as we've been given to understand the developers' intent. Either this language is only referring to inter-EK trade or I have completely misunderstood ACE's core design philosophy for Crowfall. I think the former scenario is much more likely than the latter.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Any kind of inter-CW or CW:EK trade caravans violate the basic tenets of campaign isolation as we've been given to understand the developers' intent. Either this language is only referring to inter-EK trade or I have completely misunderstood ACE's core design philosophy for Crowfall. I think the former scenario is much more likely than the latter.

Agreed, it's a really big stretch but it's entertaining for some to look at these hypotheticals.

Luke I am your Uncle... Bob.  What, my sister Padmè never mentioned me?

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It seems to me that it is a little bit of a wording flaw.  I took it to mean what everyone else has been saying about trading resources between EKs.

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