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What Was Bad In Shadowbane That Ought To Not Be Preserved/changed


kishijo
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Following in the idea of this thread:

 

     What Was Good About Shadowbane That Needs Preserving In Crowfall    

 

What are some of the major design misses?  (To give some direction and focus, let's not talk about technical hurdles like, "less lag," but design principles.)

 

I enjoyed the looting in SB, for instance, and the idea of equipment damage.  But a weird unintended consequence resulted in things like naked players running around bucket healing the walls.  That probably wasn't anticipated in the core design (maybe it was, but hindsight is 20/20).

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Following in the idea of this thread:

 

     What Was Good About Shadowbane That Needs Preserving In Crowfall    

 

What are some of the major design misses?  (To give some direction and focus, let's not talk about technical hurdles like, "less lag," but design principles.)

 

I enjoyed the looting in SB, for instance, and the idea of equipment damage.  But a weird unintended consequence resulted in things like naked players running around bucket healing the walls.  That probably wasn't anticipated in the core design (maybe it was, but hindsight is 20/20).

Equipment damage and full loot weren't the reason for naked bucket brigades. The reason was that gear wasn't cheap without duping and even then most people were simply too lazy to gear out a bot they were never going to actively play for more than a couple minutes in between fights at a bane. The gear also didn't have a huge ROI for bots like that so really stylebane was the only reason to clothe your bots.

 

As for facets of SB that shouldn't be brought over, I'd say the entire PvE system of xp/farming from that game was pretty atrocious. Also, don't take notes on siege mechanics after ToO unless the top of the list says "lessons to learn from the past." The buff system was totally fubar as well and is still problematic for both emulators. Even when p2p the system itself was uninspired, lame and had some odd repercussions once everyone started to really get the hang of building characters and poorly made socks; as players quit or moved on they passed any pre-paid accounts on to guildmates to be used as bot stables and once the game went f2p the flood gates opened.

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1) Ever going "Free to Play"

 

2) lack of content

 

3) Balancing of in game world and "funneled PvP" (75% of the map was a wasteland six months after launch, a lot sooner than that on emulators) - 

I do realize that launch was a hell of a grind, i am speaking of later iterations of the game.

 

4) Roguebane (rediculous balance changes)

 

5) Glass Items (or any Item that bypasses a in game mechanic (please don't try to sell me on stacking bleed resist or "Breakability))

 

6) Removal of guard dogs.....I liked them

.

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Scoutbane, Roguebane in general.  Leave it behind. 

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this will probably be controversial but i think sb's diversity of races (especially) and classes was a double edged sword - there being so many different possible race/class combos seemed to create a nightmare situation with balancing and making everything viable. 

 

a lot of times i think novelty won out at the expense of balance (ie mino stun immunity which lead to hg rage which were both coupled with heavy melee meta dominance, natural flight)

 

i think this is also a consequence of people/designers being more willing to buff rather than nerf the obvious outliers.

 

i don't think a wide range of options necessarily leads to balance issues, but i do think it confounds them and is something to keep in mind.

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this will probably be controversial but i think sb's diversity of races (especially) and classes was a double edged sword - there being so many different possible race/class combos seemed to create a nightmare situation with balancing and making everything viable. 

 

a lot of times i think novelty won out at the expense of balance (ie mino stun immunity which lead to hg rage which were both coupled with heavy melee meta dominance, natural flight)

 

i think this is also a consequence of people/designers being more willing to buff rather than nerf the obvious outliers.

 

i don't think a wide range of options necessarily leads to balance issues, but i do think it confounds them and is something to keep in mind.

It's not controversial, it's just poorly expressed.  I personally enjoyed the complexity of character creation, the absolute min/max formulas and even the annoyance of forgetting a starting rune.  The balance issue wasn't because of races or classes though, there were plenty of times a more proactive smaller group of changes woulkd have been better suited that the massive content patches they always tried to force down our throats all at once.  It's not a game like league where small balances need to be made as long as they responsibly balance out everything at creation because what's great in small scale skirmishes is more than likely to suck ass at banes and sieges. 

 

Leadership was what made or broke guilds, not their classes or races and I don't they think they catch patch gumption. 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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I think there were too many sweeping changes done that affected a large number of classes and were very hard to judge how they would affect every combination of base/promotion classes. Changes to stances, removing style casting, messing with base class powers, etc. all helped make certain classes just simply not as good compared to a different class or combo. I just want every class combination to be effective unlike playing a healer channy after they got crushed with nerfs. There simply was just no reason to play one vs a different healer or a mage channy. 

 

They do have to be careful about powerful racial abilities(stun immunity/natural flight) because I think that adds a significant challenge to balancing GvG and making all combinations viable. With that being said, I hate in new games where, for example, being a dwarf gives me an almost meaningless benefit besides aesthetics. That's great I can craft hammers 5% faster... wonderful. 

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Not being able to play any toon other than a rogue outside of seiges/mines.

 

And this is coming from a guy who loves his thieves/scouts

I find it humorous how many folks complained about "roguebane" when, in fact, the solo hunting style of gameplay is exactly what rogues are built to do.

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Scoutbane.

 

Not being able to fight on noob island.

 

Vampires.

 

Only male Dwarfs!?!?! 

 

Refiner.

 

Mcdonald Commercials. Yeah I went there!

 

Buff Bots, This was only a problem for me when the game went F2P.

 

 

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I find it humorous how many folks complained about "roguebane" when, in fact, the solo hunting style of gameplay is exactly what rogues are built to do.

Don't get me wrong. I almost exclusively played rogues. I just felt it got a bit out of hand at times. There was no fear in playing a bird scout solo. 0. None.

 

And sure, it was funny some times to take on a mino warrior and completely demolish him, but it still felt wrong.

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Click-to-move.

 

Multiboxers forming their own 10-man groups to run around in formation and AFK powerlevel themselves all night.

 

Prefix/suffix RNG on item drops (Shadowbane basically started this and it's been a plague in MMORPGs ever since).

 

Most importantly, I think one of Shadowbane's biggest issues was the fact that you, as a guild, could invest months of hard work into a city only to have it completely demolished (or taken from you) in an hour or two with nothing to show for it. While I recognize that this is part of building a world with consequence, and I do very much want a world with consequence, you have to ask yourself what that guild is going to do at that failure point. Are they going to rebuild from scratch and repeat all of their prior effort after having been thoroughly humiliated, or are they going to quit and go to another game? (Eve Online has a similar problem, as I recall the mantra of "slopes for the slope throne", or demoralizing an enemy alliance into collapsing and its members into quitting.) I don't know what the answer to this is, but I think it's evident that many guilds chose simply to leave the game after losing their investments, and that this ultimately lead to Shadowbane's demise. I hope Crowfall has a solution to this problem.

Edited by recatek
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Click-to-move.

 

Prefix/suffix RNG on item drops (Shadowbane basically started this and it's been a plague in MMORPGs ever since).

 

 

 

loved both of these :)

 

gave huge depth to builds where weapons could make/break a character

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