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Who are these people: 2015 Survey results, pt. 1 - Official discussion thread

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That being said, I can tell you exactly what would get me to contribute more:

 

- Exclusive physical items (i.e. sculptures, artwork, etc)

Oh, you mean something like.. i don't know.. CE maybe? https://backers.crowfall.com/#/store/3310ba30-5e5a-11e5-acde-f59fad3e95c7

 

 

- Boosts to my playing experience that allows me, as a casual player, to experience the game the same way a hardcore player does (to an extent)

 

T9NGd0b.jpg

 

Good one m8

 

 

- Adding a character that I help create permanently into the lore of the game.

Higher Kickstarter pledges included:

-Name-A-Fallen-Hero

-Name-A-Fallen-Monarch 

 

 

- T-Shirt or Sweater that is exclusive for backers

Store > "Limited edition Crowfall T-shirts" looks good enough to me


Welcome the hunger

Todd is Love, Todd is Life.

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- Boosts to my playing experience that allows me, as a casual player, to experience the game the same way a hardcore player does (to an extent)

 

No-Meme-The-Office-15.gif

 

No. There are other games that might suit your playstyle more. Besides this, should someone that invests less time and effort into the game get rewarded evenly? I don't think so.

 

This attitude destroyed the entire mmorpg genre. "I want everything with the least amount of effort." Just no. If you don't have the time to play an mmo likes it's intended you might be better served playing single player games where you can save and load. Heck, even I play them right now, because I don't have a proper mmo to invest my time in.

Edited by Canth

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No-Meme-The-Office-15.gif

 

No. There are other games that might suit your playstyle more. Besides this, should someone that invests less time and effort into the game get rewarded evenly? I don't think so.

 

This attitude destroyed the entire mmorpg genre. "I want everything with the least amount of effort." Just no. If you don't have the time to play an mmo likes it's intended you might be better served playing single player games where you can save and load. Heck, even I play them right now, because I don't have a proper mmo to invest my time in.

Convenience features have definitely ruined MMORPGs...  Some people don't even realize when they are asking for a convenience feature. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Convenience features have definitely ruined MMORPGs...  Some people don't even realize when they are asking for a convenience feature. 

 

While some convenience features definitely had/have a negative impact on games, some are actually great. It's not a black and white situation imo. I know you disagree.


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While some convenience features definitely had/have a negative impact on games, some are actually great. It's not a black and white situation imo. I know you disagree.

It's very black and white in that the majority of time gamers will gravitate towards the path of least resistance, so it is in their nature to always want more convenience than a game should have. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Clearly we need more ladies. No offence guys, but ladies tend to balance out the social and cooperative dynamics in MMOs. We're awesome collaborative teammates. Plus, too much sausage is bad for the health. I'll have to drag my wizard sisters along to live game to bring a little more estrogen into the mix. 

 

Why are only the men in all those families planning to play? When I was married, I would have loved nothing more than to game with my husband. Guys, please convince your ladies to play. 

 

Family gaming is where it's at these days. One of those teens is mine, and I expect to bring my tween along after the game goes live. 

 

I'm impressed with the educational demographics. We Crows are smart, as are crows irl. And somewhat well off financially, which isn't really surprising, as people with good quality computers, internet access, and disposable income tend to skew toward higher education and income brackets anyway. 

 

I'd love to see a follow up Myers-Briggs Personality Test survey. Also, it would be cool to see a lot of Crows take that survey Canth shared a while back in another thread. Then we would really get a sense of who we are. 

 

Awesome information, ACE! Thanks for the insights. 

 

Iri~


Click your profile name>Click Manage Ignore Prefs>Find "Add a new user to my list" at the bottom of the page>Type in a username>Check options>Save Changes>Silence is bliss.

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This is cray cray. As Hamopeche has pointed out, a 3 year old filled out a survey? Wasn't my 3 year old, so seriously??

 

And grammar school, seriously? Did we enter a time warp or did someone from Utah or the Amish make that selection? Nonetheless, I'm to believe kids under 18 contributed over $13k to the game?

 

If they're going to say they're 3 years old and bought a bloodstone, I think it's safe to say you don't need their response in your data at all.

Based on this graph, I get an average age of ~19,9. I didn't recalculate though and it may be incorrect.

Wait, this data can't be right can it?  The first graph clearly does not indicate average age of 29.9.

Thanks for taking the time to recalculate. I was to lazy to do it my self, but just by looking at the graph you can clearly see that the average is not 29,9. 19,9 looks right and also makes 29,9 beeing a typo very likely.

 

Thank you all for looking so closely at the data! You did catch a typo: the x-axis of the first graph did not update like the other two graphs. Everything else on the page was correct, but we did not get any responses from 3-year-olds. Both curves are combined on the third graph, and the x-axis is correct there. 

 

Here is how it should have looked. We will get the main slide updated soon. 

 

Reported_Age.png

 

CS do you have an algorithm for all of the falsified info? That survey looked like a mess! I couldn't trust most of it. The only part that I'm sure is mostly accurate is the gender one and that was just sad. I know over all guys dominate the player base in competetive games but damn...that really sucks. Having a more diverse player group always adds to the over all enjoyment. 

 

Well i'm sure as they expected not everyone answered the survey with sincerity.  

The results seems a bit weird, but i did expect few people can troll about stuff since it's anonymously done.

 

I do have some error-catching built in, but I have been amazed how little it has been necessary. There was one hidden question-pathing that asked you directly "are you trolling us?" This question was only displayed 7 times out of the full 10K. There were only about 70 responses in total that we eliminated based on people selecting the same answer across the board in multiple sections, and many answers from the same IP. 

 

It turns out when people are investing nearly half an hour to support a game that doesn't exist yet, they are willing to give real answers. Who knew? I suppose there are plenty of places where your effort in trolling will have a much greater impact than one data-point I can easy-delete. 

Edited by ChanceShowers

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Maybe women just don't like filling out surveys? They could've assumed it was just Hunter sending out a/s/l requests.

Why are only the men in all those families planning to play? When I was married, I would have loved nothing more than to game with my husband. Guys, please convince your ladies to play. 

 

I am going to mostly stay out of the gender discussion, but headlight makes a great point about selection bias that should be kept in mind for any of these results. Anyone who does not like responding to surveys is going to be drastically under-represented in our findings. It is very difficult to prove whether or not it is a factor on any question. 

 

Many of the people did specifically say they intend to play with their S.O. As usually happens with these things, I expect one partner is more excited about the game than the other, and that partner is less likely to fill out a survey than the person leading the charge.
 

A couple thoughts-

If you still live with the parents its time to move.

If you live in a 14 person household you are probably a refugee and you have more important things than Crowfall to worry about.

 

Keep in mind this survey takes into account a great deal of life stages and international participants. It could be a family has taken back in elderly grandparents to help care for their new children. In many cultures, extended family living in one domicile is common; that 14-person family might have 4 generations in it. (actually in that specific case, it looks more like a frat-house)

 

Some of the data seem a little fudged.

 

More than half of the people who contributed work more than 30 hours a week.  Seems to me that we have a pretty busy demographic. Almost makes you wish that you could do fun/significant things in 30 minutes of gameplay.

 

Keep your eyes peeled for anything you think is fudged and call it to my attention! Accurate data is more important than anything else here. It's my job (well, volunteer job) to be just as skeptical as you are, but I do overlook things. 

 

As someone who is very busy, I agree with your point about a 30-minute gameplay experience. At the same time, anything that is done to make it more fun for those with less time should not hurt the gaming experience of those with more time to play. For a long time in MMOs, playtime has been the primary factor in deciding who wins--perhaps it is time to rethink this assumption? 

 

There should be a third variable at play here: skill. Most of the time, gamers with more playtime develop greater skill and thus win more--this should be given. I think the question on the table is: should gamers with less playtime, but who are just as skilled, be punished competitively for the lack of hours invested? Should they be able to win just as frequently as those with more playtime? How does a game achieve a balance to help busy people "catch-up" without making it possible to pay-to-win? The economist in me has ideas, but since I do not have any design control over Crowfall, I don't want to speculate publicly. 

Edited by ChanceShowers

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I'd love to see a follow up Myers-Briggs Personality Test survey. Also, it would be cool to see a lot of Crows take that survey Canth shared a while back in another thread. Then we would really get a sense of who we are. 

 

Awesome information, ACE! Thanks for the insights. 

 

Iri~

I'd be more interested in seeing a Bartle Test done...Myers Briggs is nice in the same vein as a horoscope, Bartle is specifically for gamers (and is a little more substantive) and may yield some interesting results that the devs could use in design.

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I'd be more interested in seeing a Bartle Test done...Myers Briggs is nice in the same vein as a horoscope, Bartle is specifically for gamers (and is a little more substantive) and may yield some interesting results that the devs could use in design.

Yep, Myers Briggs is for fun. I can't remember the survey Canth shared, but it was specific to gamer profiles. Maybe he'll see this convo and unearth the old thread or reshare the link. 

 

Iri~


Click your profile name>Click Manage Ignore Prefs>Find "Add a new user to my list" at the bottom of the page>Type in a username>Check options>Save Changes>Silence is bliss.

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Yep, Myers Briggs is for fun. I can't remember the survey Canth shared, but it was specific to gamer profiles. Maybe he'll see this convo and unearth the old thread or reshare the link. 

 

Iri~

 

Your wish is my command: https://apps.quanticfoundry.com/lab/10

 

;)


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This is almost me in a nutshell, except for the income part. That being said, I can tell you exactly what would get me to contribute more:

 

- Exclusive physical items (i.e. sculptures, artwork, etc)

- Boosts to my playing experience that allows me, as a casual player, to experience the game the same way a hardcore player does (to an extent)

- Adding a character that I help create permanently into the lore of the game.

- T-Shirt or Sweater that is exclusive for backers

- Maybe some computer hardware with the Crowfall artwork embedded into it

 

Just throwing out some ideas. 

 

I agree with you that more merchandise, like clothes, artworks and figurines would likely get people to contribute more. Maybe it's too early to add a lot of new stuff in the store, but once the game has a larger player base it would be great.

 

Concerning the boost in playing experience, I think that it won't be necessary in Crowfall. There are already a lot of things in the design that help new or casual players to participate and be effective in PvP. They talk about it in the Combat FAQ :

 

8. HOW DO YOU PREVENT SEASONED CHARACTERS FROM SMASHING NEW PLAYERS?

 

This is a fairly large problem for traditional (level based) MMORPGs: high (or max) level characters are basically invincible against mid and low level characters. Numerically, this is often caused by power escalation: the low level warrior might hit for 10 to 20 damage the high level hits for ~4000.

 

In a game that is PvP-focused, this is obviously not going to be a fun fight for the low level player! Level based progression systems force their players into zones based on level brackets, which really segments the population. Since Crowfall is a very different game, we’ve approached this problem from a few different angles.

 

First, we are using a “skill” based system – there are no levels. Without levels, the difference between a “maxed” character and a starting character is far less severe.

 

Second, we designed the game to have a much flatter power curve. Meaning that your biggest gains for any skill (or attribute) come early, and the remaining gains are all on a steep “diminishing returns” curve.

 

Additionally, access to equipment will largely be based on acquiring it rather than an arbitrary “level” restriction. To add to this, the power curve for equipment has been dramatically “flattened,” as well. Power gained from equipment is much smaller than in a level-based game – but still meaningful enough that players aren’t running about naked.

 

More action-related mechanics such as dashes and blocks will create opportunities for new players to avoid damage that isn’t based on a random number generator. Additionally, terrain and position make a huge difference – which makes the game much more tactical.

 

Lastly, because the game uses passive training as the primary mechanism for advancement, there is no grind for player powers or camping of monsters to find that “one rare item”. Players will essentially have a full arsenal of powers to use from the beginning.

Edited by courant101

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Wanted to add some of my thoughts to your results so you can tie things together better?

 

  • First chart showing age/contribution and a note on a spike of contributions at age 33? Shadowbane released when these people were in college. Highest volume of players is typically (and backed by your survey results) at the 18-22 range. Correlation likely has something to do with this and the fact that this age group has more money and wants to see the successor to that title. Historically research the games this age group likely played and you'll likely come to more correct correlations.
  • Farmers/rural people probably don't contribute more often, survey sample size of this population is significantly lower then you'd want. The fact that this survey went to backers only sort of condemns this metric. Wouldn't you need to sample non-backers to get more accurate breakdowns of this?
  • "Astonishingly high % of contributors have professional degrees" compared to what? The days of assuming gamers are 6-16 year old children playing xbox's has long since passed.
  • Female interest in this project; not surprising. Aggressive games as this was envisioned have typically never attracted that audience. Female populations in EVE are also fairly comparable to these results if I recall a similar survey they did awhile back.
  • I'd like to see unemployment contributions by country... if only to condemn what I believe to be true (US vs Europe Welfare State).
  • I like the chart about hours worked per week. Its a reaffirmation of what I long believed to be true; this is a game that will succeed as long it designs systems that continue to take into account that their core player has to go to work and cant stand around micromanaging 24/7. Please continue to develop systems like; the bane circle, offline character progression, etc.
  • Similarly, I'd like to be a hypocrite and beg to please not design this game to be playable with children. Household demographics != this game should appeal to whole families with children. Lets just write this off as successful parenting involves having a violent outlet for frustration and anger in a digital medium.
  • You should label the lines in Graph 10 to be more clear what you were trying to communicate.

 

Very interesting, non-the-less. Kudos. Very surprised at the respondent rate and I agree its a good sign that fans want to make sure they were heard. I don't think their were any big surprises here though.

 

edit: I'd personally not find the statistics of under-reported demographics very important. You broke down household size to an extreme. None of the 4, on the high end (9-14 sized), had statistically relevant numbers to justify reporting them. I understand you included some data here for thoroughness, however.

Edited by scree

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  • You should label the lines in Graph 10 to be more clear what you were trying to communicate.

 

Fair point; sorry labels didn't make the slide. Red line is average contribution. Blue like is household income. The graph is a visualization of the data in the table below it. 

 

To your other points:

- Double check your ages in light of the typo I posted earlier. The X-axis labels on the first graph are incorrect. Apologies for the confusion. 

- I like your hypothesis that the age 33 spike is affected by Shadowbane release date.

- The survey went out to far more than just backers...that's how we got a contribution rate in the first place; it's the percentage of survey responses who were backers. It went out to everyone who expressed an interested in the game and findings should be generalization to that population.

- I don't have them in front of me right now, but if I remember correctly the p-values of "true rural" were high enough to be making a statistically significant inference about our population. 

- You inverted my word order regarding professional degrees. I state "an astonishingly high 57% of gamers with professional degrees have contributed." This is contrasted against all of the other categories in the data table, the second highest of which was 50%. Granted this too is a small sample size, but still interesting.  

- Crowfall definitely has a more mature audience than many games of generations past. ACE knows this well and is making design decisions accordingly. 

Edited by ChanceShowers

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