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Who are these people: 2015 Survey results, pt. 1 - Official discussion thread


Pann

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And about the breasts or gtfo, here is the best explanation of what it means: [link removed]

 

Oh boy! I was waiting for this to get posted at some point!  Now things get interesting!

 

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...give free items to new guild members 2 years into the game.

...grind is what killed DFO.

 

Now.. Now.. I thought I've seen everything, but a KGB guy analyzing the demise of DFO is like asking Ghandi for knife fighting tips. Carefully grooming your player character over months with nimble macro scripts and a burning passion like tending a bonsai garden is what makes people attached to it -more or less. What killed DF was the fact that this grooming was for "nothing". New players could always get in pretty quickly, assuming they weren't very clumsy.

 

Secondly, in case you didn't know, the relevant rulesets in Crowfall prohibit any item imports. Not that it matters, since you all fought naked in DF most of the time anway.

 

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It takes a certain lack of self-awareness for a thread full of dudes wondering where the women are to be unironically punctuated with assertions that women just aren't good at competition and accusing someone of "playing the gender card." 

 

Bravo keep it up you're really going places 

 

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You are a carebear, though.

Yes I am, and that is fine to be called so, as long as it isn't being used in a derogatory way.  And the only reason I'm not into PvP is because of the attitude of most people who are PvP.  I play to have fun and to advance my character, not to have people who beat me in PvP rub it in my face, as most do.

 

so that's what hardcore means to VN... pickin on little girls...

 

tsts, shame on you

Little girls?  If you're referring to size, sure, I'm on the short side.  Age wise, I am an adult who is in her 5th year of college, so I would hardly say that suffices as a "little girl."

 

Oh, here we go again. It's time for a reality check. ​Of course, I could simply blog personal anecdotes about women asking guild mates for pictures of their genitals or posting nudes with time stamps for certain in-game advantages on Reddit, but this would be too silly. Therefore:

​1) Your definition of maturity is wrong (including some other posters in this thread as well). It is often wrongly used as a synonym to "What I think is right" or "This is politically correct". The definition of maturity depends on culture, individual views and political ideologies.

​2) This game has built-in Trammel. This means you can PvE while being able to avoid PvP for the most time, assuming you play in God's Reach and Its rulesets.

​3) If you identify yourself primarily as a PvE player and engage in (forum-)PvP with players who only played PvP games their whole life, you will obviously get face melted off the map. This also applies to men. It's is a statement of fact.

​4) To continue 3), Women do not perform well in competitive games vs Men. If they chose to play these games, there is usually a compartmentalization, resulting in forming of women exclusive leagues or ladders. Very much like in real life. This is also a statement of fact with exceptions being a rarity. You're free to prove them wrong by competing.

​5) Objectification, like 1), depends on culture, subjective views and politics. In your case, it's more of an issue of lacking etiquette by said males during communication or your inability to take things like that with humor - depending on how some outside party may view this interaction.

​6) Judging someone by their readiness to stand up for what you view to be correct is not a valid argument, rather an appeal to moral chaos.

 

This being said, my view on maturity in this context is the ability to be able to chose the people you interact with​ and not to confront yourself with people you disagree with and in turn expecting the whole game community to roll out the red carpet for your personal views. ACE has already set a baseline code for interactions within the game and on the forums which should cover sexual herassment. Everything beyond that is personal politics. ​Let's not forget; this is a game, not a stage for political indoctrination. ​ 

 

P.S.: In the past, we had women in our guild / corp who would 100% oppose what you've said and take things very differently. This underlines the subjective character of perceiving what is "mature" or not.

First paragraph, don't hold what some women do against me.

1. I didn't define maturity, so this point is already invalid.  I only stated things that I believe to be immature.  Though what you said is true, I only stated what I believe to be immature.  Never did I say it was factual. 

2. My point exactly, which is why I'm annoyed when people tell me otherwise.  I agree with this.

3. I'll give you that.  And I have no issue with people not liking PvE players.  It's their attitude that makes it annoying.

4. However, there are women who play better than most men in games.  This observation of your's could simply seem like that because there are a lot less women who play games, therefore making their flaws more noticeable.

5. I can take humor.  Which is why I said "okay haha, but I don't want to talk about this.  Move on."  It's when they continue that it is a nuisance.   Tell me, how would you feel if women constantly asked you to send pics of your genitals?

6. And again, I only state my opinions.  Never have I said people need to believe in what I believe in, and nor have I said the people who didn't stand up for me is immature.  I don't need people to fight my battles, the point of the statement was to paint a picture of what was going on, the focus were on the 12 who couldn't keep their man parts in their pants, so I don't get the point of this statement.  

 

I agree, hence my statement of how I block them and ignore them.  I only was giving counter examples of the theory that the crowd in this community are mature.  And AGAIN, I never ask anyone to take my side, I only stated my opinions.  So stop acting like I'm expecting special treatment when this is far from the truth.

 

About maturity. No offense but using your gender to gain sympathy points is not being mature.

 

It is the internet. I could be a dog typing randomly on a keyboard and you would not know. If you want to "not be objectified" just don't try to use your gender to get an advantage: stay anonymous.

Being a woman in a domain historically populated by male nerds is like shooting fish in a barrel with a grenade launcher. So don't get defensive when those nerds use what they learned during their bad years: use your opponent insecurities to custard with their head. It is a PvP oriented game. The PvP crowd will do anything to get an advantage. Slander you, spy on your guild, plant people there to steal your poorly made socks and destroy it from the inside, hack your TS to disable communication during war, social engineer you to get access to your private forum. That's how you win a realm PvP game.

 

And about the breasts or gtfo, here is the best explanation of what it means: [link removed]

 

If you think I'm anti women in gaming, just try and join KGB in the games we're currently playing. You may be surprised by the percentage of female voices and their current rank.

The frak dude, where did I use my gender to gain sympathy?  I didn't.  If I were a guy who entered a room of women who wanted pics of my genital, I would still say the same thing.  Gender has nothing to do with my statements.  Thanks for putting words in my mouth, stop reading into things that aren't there.

 

I don't use my gender for any advantage, and to assume otherwise is ignorance on your part.  And it's funny you're telling me to stay anonymous, when you're not.  Your profile says "male."  Hypocrite. 

Women are just as much nerds as men, it's only a stereotype that men are more nerdy.  And the game isn't PvP oriented, it is oriented for all player types, as Todd Coleman has stated that they are trying to create a game where everyone can find enjoyment.  Yes, with every game comes PvP, and I'm fine with that.  Even necessary PvP is fine.  But to say PvE players will fail is narcissistic.  

 

I know what the "breasts or gtfo" phrase means, but it is degrading and frankly, over-used and sexist.  How is this, hooligan (censored) or gtfo.  Doesn't feel right, does it?  Same to women, doesn't feel right, so shove it.

 

I could care less what you think of women, as I've said gender has nothing to do with it or arguments I've made.  My original post was to point out how people cannot hold back their horny feelings and it's simply annoying to me.  Even if the roles were reversed and it was women asking a man for pics, I would find it immature.  It's the action I'm criticizing, not the gender roles.

 

 

 

 

 

FINAL POINT TO ALL:  I'm criticizing actions, not gender roles.  So stop putting fraking words in my mouth and making this a gender fight, when it wasn't that to begin with.  Also, this is my last post on this discussion, because anything else said would only be me repeating myself.  I have my beliefs and others have their's, it won't change for both sides, and anymore argument is pointless.

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​4) To continue 3), Women do not perform well in competitive games vs Men. If they chose to play these games, there is usually a compartmentalization, resulting in forming of women exclusive leagues or ladders. Very much like in real life. This is also a statement of fact with exceptions being a rarity. You're free to prove them wrong by competing.

 

...​

 

This being said, my view on maturity in this context is the ability to be able to chose the people you interact with​ and not to confront yourself with people you disagree with and in turn expecting the whole game community to roll out the red carpet for your personal views. ACE has already set a baseline code for interactions within the game and on the forums which should cover sexual herassment. Everything beyond that is personal politics. ​Let's not forget; this is a game, not a stage for political indoctrination. ​ 

 

 

 

I will agree with part of this point - "Women do not perform well in competitive games vs men", but the key thing to ask is WHY?

 

It has nothing to do with skill, its entirely due to the fact that us guys can be jerks. 

Its common for a bunch of male friends to trash talk each other. For many its a way of bonding / having fun.

BUT you need to be aware of who else is in the room and when it is or is not acceptable. 

Trash talking your friends, GO WILD! Trash talking with strangers in the room, think twice, one of those strangers could be your mom. (see example below)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FI2LY4dk-s (Spanish language, English subtitles)

 

 

If someone is not comfortable with something, it does not mean they lack a sense of humor, it means they have a different set of values which deserves to be treated with respect. It is our responsibility to make them feel comfortable. You don't have to bend over backwards, but its not that hard to simply watch what you say.  

 

 

TL;DR - Quoting the code of conduct, "It is okay for users to disagree with one another, but opinions must be expressed in a reasonable and polite manner. It is important to maintain an atmosphere of civility and respect, so that all voices may be heard." Red carpet is not required, but respect for their opinion is. 

 

 

It is the internet. I could be a dog typing randomly on a keyboard and you would not know. If you want to "not be objectified" just don't try to use your gender to get an advantage: stay anonymous.

Being a woman in a domain historically populated by male nerds is like shooting fish in a barrel with a grenade launcher. So don't get defensive when those nerds use what they learned during their bad years: use your opponent insecurities to custard with their head. It is a PvP oriented game. The PvP crowd will do anything to get an advantage. Slander you, spy on your guild, plant people there to steal your poorly made socks and destroy it from the inside, hack your TS to disable communication during war, social engineer you to get access to your private forum. That's how you win a realm PvP game.

 

 

I agree with the sentiment of "stay anonymous", but I don't think that should be necessary.

 

I think using someone's insecurities to gain an advantage is a lazy way to win. Put in the time, use your skills, win without the name calling.

Spying / Double-agents / IC theft - all fine and good. That takes skill and effort.

 

Spreading misinformation is cool too. Slander and personal attacks are not.

We have enough slander in the real world, I would hope our community could rise above it!

 

And that's that. I've said my piece. Feel free to disagree, I can respect that. But when killing me in a campaign, follow the CoC, be respectful, and leave the personal attacks at the door!

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I will agree with part of this point - "Women do not perform well in competitive games vs men", but the key thing to ask is WHY?

 

It has nothing to do with skill, its entirely due to the fact that us guys can be jerks. 

Its common for a bunch of male friends to trash talk each other. For many its a way of bonding / having fun.

BUT you need to be aware of who else is in the room and when it is or is not acceptable. 

Trash talking your friends, GO WILD! Trash talking with strangers in the room, think twice, one of those strangers could be your mom. (see example below)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FI2LY4dk-s (Spanish language, English subtitles)

 

 

If someone is not comfortable with something, it does not mean they lack a sense of humor, it means they have a different set of values which deserves to be treated with respect. It is our responsibility to make them feel comfortable. You don't have to bend over backwards, but its not that hard to simply watch what you say.  

 

 

TL;DR - Quoting the code of conduct, "It is okay for users to disagree with one another, but opinions must be expressed in a reasonable and polite manner. It is important to maintain an atmosphere of civility and respect, so that all voices may be heard." Red carpet is not required, but respect for their opinion is. 

 

 

I agree with the sentiment of "stay anonymous", but I don't think that should be necessary.

 

I think using someone's insecurities to gain an advantage is a lazy way to win. Put in the time, use your skills, win without the name calling.

Spying / Double-agents / IC theft - all fine and good. That takes skill and effort.

 

Spreading misinformation is cool too. Slander and personal attacks are not.

We have enough slander in the real world, I would hope our community could rise above it!

 

And that's that. I've said my piece. Feel free to disagree, I can respect that. But when killing me in a campaign, follow the CoC, be respectful, and leave the personal attacks at the door!

And I can learn from you, you're much more well spoken than I.

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Is this thread about equality now? Well, suffice it to say PvErs will never be equal to PvPers in anything. Get good or get got. 

You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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Is this thread about equality now? Well, suffice it to say PvErs will never be equal to PvPers in anything. Get good or get got.

True that cyt, different calibre of people.

Officer of The BlackHand Order

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Tell me, how would you feel if women constantly asked you to send pics of your genitals?

I would feel indifferent. It means that this particular woman is looking to identify reasons why I am such a great person, because she may assume that my strength and intelligence stems from my genitals. Or, in the second case, she has heightened interest in science and medicine and is just looking for specimen! Thrid case, she is just sexually interested, in which case she probes the object of desire by asking for visual confirmation of this uranium rod of mine whether it's good enough for her enrichment centrifuge, so she may or may not proceed to escalate the communication to a higher level (e.g. asking for my name).

​It's biology. It's the reason why we exist, because at some point in history, ancient people began staring at each others private parts for hours until dragging the object of desire by its hair into a cave, so afterwards she would pick berries (PvE) and he would PvP the endboss mammoth. She never liked him PvPing though, but she loved the fur he made out of a slain sabre-tooth cat. [basically Crowfall economy in a nutshell]

​I will agree with part of this point - "Women do not perform well in competitive games vs men", but the key thing to ask is WHY?

It has nothing to do with skill, its entirely due to the fact that us guys can be jerks.

Thank you for having my confused co-workers storm into my office, because my laughter penetrated approximtely all six office floors.

 

It takes a certain lack of self-awareness for a thread full of dudes wondering where the women are ...

Counting a stray white knight as "full of dudes" is wishful thinking.

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It's interesting that this thread jumped from data and statistics to stereotype and opinion so quickly. By mature, they mean age - they never asked us which fart jokes were funny. It is possible to disagree in a civil manner, believe it or not.

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It's interesting that this thread jumped from data and statistics to stereotype and opinion so quickly. By mature, they mean age - they never asked us which fart jokes were funny. It is possible to disagree in a civil manner, believe it or not.

Yea ChanceShowers quote was taken out of context and/or misunderstood, it was talking about age primarily. 

 

Tell us again how hardcore you are Qbs/VIKINGNAIL

 

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Are you trying to imply that i have some sort of identity crisis?  I've been accused of being many different people but I am not those people. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Tell us again how hardcore you are Qbs/VIKINGNAIL

 

Nah, it isn't him. Looking at his join date and the way Qbs writes reminds me of someone that got recently banned and used multiple accounts in the past.

 

Moving on ... happy to see 124 responses from The Netherlands. That is a big number for such a small country as ours. Would have liked to see average participation per citizen instead, because I think that gives us a better picture. Ofc. Germany has a lot of responses, they have also 81 million citizens (in comparison with NL's 17 million). Not that it's a contest.  ;)

 

Still, the total amount of non-US participants is too low. I would have liked seeing a further breakdown in percentages for the different markets, like US, EU and Asia instead. Would have given us a better idea how well the EU 'performs'. Still hoping Crowfall takes off more in EU then it does now, because I really want to see ACE self-publish here.

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THE most active European Crowfall community. Join us now!

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Nah, it isn't him. Looking at his join date and the way Qbs writes reminds me of someone that got recently banned and used multiple accounts in the past.

 

none of the people that were banned had any DF knowledge whatsoever...

neither does VN... after michael flatley and sheen, he seems to have finally settled for a forum name

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none of the people that were banned had any DF knowledge whatsoever...

neither does VN... after michael flatley and sheen, he seems to have finally settled for a forum name

Let's not derail the thread with your witch hunts please. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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