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Who are these people: 2015 Survey results, pt. 1 - Official discussion thread

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Let's not derail the thread with your witch hunts please.

 

Is it hardcore to hide behind multiple alts because you lack spine?


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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Tell us again how hardcore you are Qbs...

Only if you explain why I'm not able to see your avatar without removing the brazilian porn filter in AdBlock.

 

Please don't derail this otherwise very interesting thread, boycotting the hard work of the few volunteers who have taken the time to make a great survey and present their data to us.

 

Qbs writes reminds me of the boogeyman ...

I'm sorry to hear that. But It wouldn't be the first time my forum posts induce panic and paranoia. Maybe it's due to my english, being a non-native speaker. I'm sorry either way; I didn't want to scare you or dig up burried feelings.

 

 

 

Back to the topic: I understand that this is only the first part of the collected data; what else did the survey collect aside from demographic data?

Edited by Qbs

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Back to the topic: I understand that this is only the first part of the collected data; what else did the survey collect aside from demographic data?

 

previously played games, comparing them to each other and comparing them to CF

also these bartle test-esque questions with the strongly agree to strongly disagree sliders

 

the 2nd part will probably reveal how many actual carebears we have here on these forums

Edited by freeze

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previously played games, comparing them to each other and comparing them to CF

also these bartle test-esque questions with the strongly agree to strongly disagree sliders

 

the 2nd part will probably reveal how many actual carebears we have here on these forums

Not sure how it relates to the forums though. I don't recall any entry in the survey that asked if we were active members of the forums based on playstyle. There were 8000+ survey's completed so yeah those of us here on the forums make up a vast minority. So even if the results show there a lots of your boogeyman carebears  that answered the survey we have no way of knowing how many are here on the forums.

 

Theres already enough accusations and shaming based on playstyles and supposed catering to, so doubt these survey results will change much beyond giving those who already gloom and doom more made up ammo to play with.  

Edited by pang

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Not sure how it relates to the forums though. I don't recall any entry in the survey that asked if we were active members of the forums based on playstyle. There were 8000+ survey's completed so yeah those of us here on the forums make up a vast minority.

 

Theres already enough accusations and shaming based on playstyles and supposed catering to, so doubt these survey results will change much beyond giving those who already gloom and doom more made up ammo to play with.  

 

oh, someone wants to be pedantic...

then here we go:

 

I was refering to the whole forum, not just its active userbase.

Everyone who registered here on the site and recieved the e-mail has a forum account. Whether that person is active, is absolutely irrelevant.

 

here, listen to this, if "playstyle shaming" is something that bothers you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXQkXXBqj_U

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Now.. Now.. I thought I've seen everything, but a KGB guy analyzing the demise of DFO is like asking Ghandi for knife fighting tips. Carefully grooming your player character over months with nimble macro scripts and a burning passion like tending a bonsai garden is what makes people attached to it -more or less. What killed DF was the fact that this grooming was for "nothing". New players could always get in pretty quickly, assuming they weren't very clumsy.

 

Macros. That's a symptom of a badly designed game unless you're making a Korean grinder. I had big hopes for DFO. I played it for 2 years after launch with macros working on my toons while I was at work. But when after 1 year the reply to "should I play this game" to friends or colleagues is "nope unless you want to spend multiple month with macros to get a not too bad toon" you start to think it is time to bail.

I even got suckered into pre-buying accounts for the Unholy War relaunch. Played 30mn then quit because of the abysmal UI.

 

Now if some company decided to launch a DFO1 server where people have full PvP skills, spells and attributes maxed at login (not crafting tho) I'd be on it like famine on Africa. And I'd bet it would be Epic and populated.

 

I know what the "breasts or gtfo" phrase means, but it is degrading and frankly, over-used and sexist.  How is this, hooligan (censored) or gtfo.  Doesn't feel right, does it?  Same to women, doesn't feel right, so shove it.

 

I could care less what you think of women, as I've said gender has nothing to do with it or arguments I've made.  My original post was to point out how people cannot hold back their horny feelings and it's simply annoying to me.  Even if the roles were reversed and it was women asking a man for pics, I would find it immature.  It's the action I'm criticizing, not the gender roles.

 

I think you have not read the picture explaining breasts or gtfo. Your equivalency is false. Male are not valued for their sexual value and playing a male card in a male dominated field is just asking to get beat.

A good equivalent could be a male on a knitting forum using his gender to get free help or goodies. Then those grandmas could ask him to wallet/abs or gtfo.

 

Don't be surprised to be attacked about your gender in this game. Especially now that you've shown you take umbrage from it. To attack you and get a position of power people will latch on anything easy: your gender, your skin color, your country of origin, your family situation, your disabilities, your accent... anything. Just shrug it off. Then attack them using their peculiarities when they don't expect it.

Someone bothers you in teamspeak? Mute. In chat? /ignore. On the forum? Ignore them too. That's one of the powers of online communication: you can chose to not communicate with someone. Be it because you don't like them or because you want some alone time.

 

On a brighter note: I urge you to try your hands at PvP. It is fun to complete a huge PvE battle but it pales in comparison to knowing that the army you helped vanquish is controlled by real players and not just a machine.

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oh, someone wants to be pedantic...

then here we go:

 

I was refering to the whole forum, not just its active userbase.

Everyone who registered here on the site and recieved the e-mail has a forum account. Whether that person is active, is absolutely irrelevant.

 

here, listen to this, if "playstyle shaming" is something that bothers you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXQkXXBqj_U

heh, just sounds like you're moving the goal posts. Activity is relevant because whats the point in calling out how many carebears are around when they are not actually "here" to see it. Just don't see the point in needing to know that other than to hold it against others and use as ammo against the dev for doing stuff you don't agree with.

 

also, Making observations isn't the same as being bothered by something.

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Back to the topic: I understand that this is only the first part of the collected data; what else did the survey collect aside from demographic data?

It collected players experiences with other games and how they would rate those games against other games, how close those games were to their ideal playing, and how they would compare all that to Crowfall.

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On a brighter note: I urge you to try your hands at PvP. It is fun to complete a huge PvE battle but it pales in comparison to knowing that the army you helped vanquish is controlled by real players and not just a machine.

 

Yes, lets get back onto a brighter note!

 

Though I primarily enjoy PvE it doesn't mean I don't have any PvP experience under my belt. I can be found in the background in a logistics or support type role.

 

I completely agree, tactically outsmarting another human can be satisfying, its like a game of chess or poker. On the flip side, beating a well programmed AI character can truly test your skills as they (ideally) don't make mistakes or are granted advantages beyond those of a normal player. 

 

There's something for everyone in both types of experiences (PvP / PvE)  and Crowfall promises to make the game friendly to all types as well as blur the lines between PvP and PvE (God's Reach and its three teams is an excellent compromise for instance).

 

Before I get jumped on for saying it, I am not denying that Crowfall is advertised as a PvP game. The very premise of the game is PvP _BUT_ it is PvP where PvE players are required to make the world go round. Unless you want to run around naked, fighting with your fists (exaggeration, though I do know there is a group who would enjoy that as well, and they even have their own world even!), you need both types of players. 

 

Ultimately it falls to the community to bring the groups together.

PvPer's:

You want more people to battle, right? Crowfall can bring in brand new groups of players (PvEers) for you to crush. If you are respectful about it some of them will stay around!

You want cool gear and to avoid grinding right? PvEers will do that for you, letting you focus on what you actually want to do!

 

PvEer's:

You want all your PvE work to be worth something, right? PvPer's need the fruit of your labors

Yeah, there are some poor sports out there, but there are good sports as well, PvP doesn't necessarily mean its a free for all gank fest. Yes, it can be, but having teams of players (God's Reach) isn't _that_ different than doing a boss raid / war. The key difference is one is scripted, the other isn't. Spying and all that stuff happens in the background, the average foot soldier will just notice things are less predictable.

 

But that is straying from the topic at hand, which is the survey results, so after this post I won't further discuss PvP / PvE on this thread. (you are welcome to PM me any interesting other threads where this discussion actually belongs though)

 

Its good to see the demographics, and I very much look forward to seeing what type of community we have according to the surveys. 

Once we know more about the player base, we can start to properly imagine what the future will hold!

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Yes, lets get back onto a brighter note!

 

Though I primarily enjoy PvE it doesn't mean I don't have any PvP experience under my belt. I can be found in the background in a logistics or support type role.

 

I completely agree, tactically outsmarting another human can be satisfying, its like a game of chess or poker. On the flip side, beating a well programmed AI character can truly test your skills as they (ideally) don't make mistakes or are granted advantages beyond those of a normal player. 

 

There's something for everyone in both types of experiences (PvP / PvE)  and Crowfall promises to make the game friendly to all types as well as blur the lines between PvP and PvE (God's Reach and its three teams is an excellent compromise for instance).

 

Before I get jumped on for saying it, I am not denying that Crowfall is advertised as a PvP game. The very premise of the game is PvP _BUT_ it is PvP where PvE players are required to make the world go round. Unless you want to run around naked, fighting with your fists (exaggeration, though I do know there is a group who would enjoy that as well, and they even have their own world even!), you need both types of players. 

 

Ultimately it falls to the community to bring the groups together.

PvPer's:

You want more people to battle, right? Crowfall can bring in brand new groups of players (PvEers) for you to crush. If you are respectful about it some of them will stay around!

You want cool gear and to avoid grinding right? PvEers will do that for you, letting you focus on what you actually want to do!

 

PvEer's:

You want all your PvE work to be worth something, right? PvPer's need the fruit of your labors

Yeah, there are some poor sports out there, but there are good sports as well, PvP doesn't necessarily mean its a free for all gank fest. Yes, it can be, but having teams of players (God's Reach) isn't _that_ different than doing a boss raid / war. The key difference is one is scripted, the other isn't. Spying and all that stuff happens in the background, the average foot soldier will just notice things are less predictable.

 

But that is straying from the topic at hand, which is the survey results, so after this post I won't further discuss PvP / PvE on this thread. (you are welcome to PM me any interesting other threads where this discussion actually belongs though)

 

Its good to see the demographics, and I very much look forward to seeing what type of community we have according to the surveys. 

Once we know more about the player base, we can start to properly imagine what the future will hold!

Not really sure how you are defining PvE in this context. There is no real PvE content. I wouldn't really consider sitting in your EK and crafting and running merchant stalls all day PvE either. That's something I see everyone doing at least a little of during their gameplay.

 

Likely what we'll see is people who PvP 100% of the time and people who PvP 90% of time and craft 10% of the time and various other ratios. But to say a PvE type player will have lots to do or offer and be supported by the game is a bit of a stretch.

Edited by pang

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Lol love the PvEr's and crafter's continuing attempts to act like they will matter.


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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Not really sure how you are defining PvE in this context. There is no real PvE content. I wouldn't really consider sitting in your EK and crafting and running merchant stalls all day PvE either. That's something I see everyone doing at least a little of during their gameplay.

 

Likely what we'll see is people who PvP 100% of the time and people who PvP 90% of time and craft 10% of the time and various other ratios. But to say a PvE type player will have lots to do or offer and be supported by the game is a bit of a stretch.

 

Since it is straying from the topic, this will be a quick reply.

 

Examples of PvE:

- Campaign crafting: Collecting and Refining Materials and then actually crafting inside a campaign world (remember, there are import / export restrictions)

- World exploration: Finding the points of interest, discipline runes and fighting monsters roaming the land. It sounds like you need to tame animals / thralls as well.

- "Fort" building and maintenance (though we don't know if / how in depth this will be)

 

Regarding 90% PvP / 10% Crafter

- A character only has so many "Discipline" slots. You will need to spend several to properly craft better gear. Odds are you will need at least two upgrades to properly equip yourself (armor and weapon). 

- Since training is done passively, to improve your crafting, you would need to use one of your training slots for it.

I don't know about you, but if I am making a combat character, I think the disciplines and and training would be better spent elsewhere! 

- Edit: The devs said they want to design things in such a way to discourage this / encourage crafter builds.

 

I can reply in more detail through PM if anyone wants. 

Edited by ledeir

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Activity is relevant because whats the point in calling out how many carebears are around when they are not actually "here"...

Apparently you're not aware of the concept of carebear sleeper cells. When the time is right, they will crawl out of their sink holes and commit attacks on the forum using various kinds of tactics when everyone expects it the least. They will even weaponize women for their cause. Right now we have only a few scattered, wandering aimlessly around the forum, making threads like "will touch screens work?" but if SHTF they will use code words to activate their hive mind and launch cooperative efforts. Just wait until Beta 1. 

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Since it is straying from the topic, this will be a quick reply.

 

Examples of PvE:

- Campaign crafting: Collecting and Refining Materials and then actually crafting inside a campaign world (remember, there are import / export restrictions)

- World exploration: Finding the points of interest, discipline runes and fighting monsters roaming the land. It sounds like you need to tame animals / thralls as well.

- "Fort" building and maintenance (though we don't know if / how in depth this will be)

 

Regarding 90% PvP / 10% Crafter

- A character only has so many "Discipline" slots. You will need to spend several to properly craft better gear. Odds are you will need at least two upgrades to properly equip yourself (armor and weapon). 

- Since training is done passively, to improve your crafting, you would need to use one of your training slots for it.

I don't know about you, but if I am making a combat character, I think the disciplines and and training would be better spent elsewhere! 

- Edit: The devs said they want to design things in such a way to discourage this / encourage crafter builds.

 

I can reply in more detail through PM if anyone wants. 

This is relevant to the survey topic because pretty sure it was asked which style you lean more towards. So it'll be interesting to see just how many PvE leaning players there are here and to see what about Crowfall is attracting them here.

 

Crafting isn't really inherently PvE or PvP. Its simply a feature that can compliment either of those. But in CF seeing as how you have to PvP to get mats and the stuff you make will be used in PvP if anything in CF crafting IS a PvP activity. I'm also fully aware of the discipline system and it doesn't take away from my point only enforces it because part of the game is building your character with pros and cons and living with those choices. So if you decide to use one of your disciplines for crafting that still doesn't take away from you wanting to PvP and be a PvPr. Its a choice we make to sacrifice some combat ability to craft or w/e else we can do. That doesn't all of a sudden make one a PvEr because they didn't make their character 100% for combat.

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This is relevant to the survey topic because pretty sure it was asked which style you lean more towards. So it'll be interesting to see just how many PvE leaning players there are here and to see what about Crowfall is attracting them here.

 

 

Its just starting to stray, if we can keep from straying to far I am more than happy to keep talking about it!

What I don't want to do is end up going round and round like these discussions tend to do ;)

 

100% agreement! The survey will tell us how many PvE leaning players there are!

 

 

Crafting isn't really inherently PvE or PvP. Its simply a feature that can compliment either of those. But in CF seeing as how you have to PvP to get mats and the stuff you make will be used in PvP if anything in CF crafting IS a PvP activity. I'm also fully aware of the discipline system and it doesn't take away from my point only enforces it because part of the game is building your character with pros and cons and living with those choices. So if you decide to use one of your disciplines for crafting that still doesn't take away from you wanting to PvP and be a PvPr. Its a choice we make to sacrifice some combat ability to craft or w/e else we can do. That doesn't all of a sudden make one a PvEr because they didn't make their character 100% for combat.

 

Agreed, its not inherently one or the other. A lot of it also depends on how the devs implement it as well. 

 

I think we are getting into semantics / unknown design territory when we try and delve too deeply into the crafting process at this time. 

Caravans sound like PvP, Thralls sound like PvE.

 

We don't know what resource collecting entails at this time. It could be safe except during transit, it could require manual collecting, or it could just magically appear all at once. 

 

What we _DO_ know is that the survey results will likely influence which approach they use ;)

 

Also agreed, diversifying doesn't magically turn you into a PvEer (though amusingly enough killing someone does magically turn you into a PvPer, at least temporarily) ;)

 

The survey results will likely impact how severe a cost is required to have some crafting skills. They have said many times that they want this to be a teamwork game, so I expect the cost will be high enough to discourage a lot of casual crafters. 

 

TL;DR -

To me the Crowfall design takes what many view as a black and white choice, PvP/PvE and blurs the line so it doesn't actually matter where you fall. You cannot* choose to ignore either side, you need to deal with the world (PvE) and the players (PvP) to prosper. The survey will likely impact how much impact each aspect has.

 

*An EK only player doesn't matter in the context of this discussion as they are effectively playing single player mode, using the campaign's game engine for their own use. 

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