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jtoddcoleman

01/22/15 - The Crowfall Universe, Economy/crafting & Raph Koster!

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This seems to be a great game. A mixture between Shadowbane and Darkfall. :D

 

But one thing I would have a concern is how to prevent ganking? A solution would be that every player have to belong to a guild. Even newbies are belonging to a newbie guild they have to leave later. And players of the same guild can not attack each other. On the opposite ganking of a player of a different guild can cause a guild war! :) A further issue we had on a shadowbane server was one guild growing such dominant that nobody else was able to fight against them. Therefore it would be good to limit the size of guilds.

 

The crafting is great and it was the thing which attracted me to this game. There is no obsolete ore and there are no need of insane amounts of them for just one equipment piece!

 

This game should never ever lock out ganking.  That would destroy one of the largest motivations players have for seeking each other out and banding together.

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Need rus version of crowfall xD U can use google to translate text - np, we can understand eng but rus is better xD

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This seems to be a great game. A mixture between Shadowbane and Darkfall. :D

 

But one thing I would have a concern is how to prevent ganking? A solution would be that every player have to belong to a guild. Even newbies are belonging to a newbie guild they have to leave later. And players of the same guild can not attack each other. On the opposite ganking of a player of a different guild can cause a guild war! :) A further issue we had on a shadowbane server was one guild growing such dominant that nobody else was able to fight against them. Therefore it would be good to limit the size of guilds.

 

The crafting is great and it was the thing which attracted me to this game. There is no obsolete ore and there are no need of insane amounts of them for just one equipment piece!

There is no need to prevent ganking, the way Shadowbane did it, was you had a starter island that didnt have PVP for the first few levels, then you were on your own.

Thats the most this game should have really. The rules of engagement should be controlled by the players, not the code. Also it appears they have size restriction in place in the form of hunger possibly, we will see. In the youtube video they linked has a teaser of them discussing the game and world building, and one of the things they said was as you win harder, you should have less of an advantage over everyone.

So far concepts have been really refreshing. Keep of the awesome work, and I am enjoying the slow reveal of information.

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This seems to be a great game. A mixture between Shadowbane and Darkfall. :D

 

But one thing I would have a concern is how to prevent ganking? A solution would be that every player have to belong to a guild. Even newbies are belonging to a newbie guild they have to leave later. And players of the same guild can not attack each other. On the opposite ganking of a player of a different guild can cause a guild war! :) A further issue we had on a shadowbane server was one guild growing such dominant that nobody else was able to fight against them. Therefore it would be good to limit the size of guilds.

 

The crafting is great and it was the thing which attracted me to this game. There is no obsolete ore and there are no need of insane amounts of them for just one equipment piece!

 

Good ganking prevention, but there is something else should be done to oversized guilds. They just will form additional guild that will be subset of main guild. Actually I have no idea how to limit something like this in given circumstances.

 

The only solution I see is some kind of duty that guild has to carry out. One of my favorite things is mixed PvE & PvP, where NPC have their own agenda that they pursue actively (not just being decoration for arena where players gank each other). So maybe biggest guilds will be targeted by NPC enemies that systematically hunt their members and disrupt supply lines or they obliged to protect cities from monster invasion. Details can be drawn but most important part is the bigger guild gets the more duties it have. While successful completion of tasks might yield benefits denial or failure to carry out duties will be severely punished. This kind of action might be incorporated with reputation among NPC factions (please no WoW graphs). In other words NPC might look for guild's aid if it is big/powerful/popular enough. Denial or failure might hinder further growth of guild (lucrative resource node located on NPC territory that guild was using is overrun by powerful enemy forces because NPC could not protect it without guild's help).

 

Sometimes helpless NPC might be absent. Just guild and local ecosystem. Most powerful guilds will control best resources eventually and these resources in turn will attract (beside rival guilds) different kind of monstrosities. You control a good, good, tasty gold mine and one day: Ahoooooy! Dragon(s) inbound!

 

Though honestly even thought of balancing out such a system is overwhelming and makes me remember my useless degree in economics that doesn't help the case. :)

 

P.S. Also a duty might be protection of non-guild low-level players from gankers.

Edited by rolan storm

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Who said that supply was infinite? ;) Also, resource areas have to be taken so you can gather the resource. 

 

Supply (raw material generation) is the reward for harvesting gameplay. Because an MMO doesn't have all the physical constraints of real-world resource production, a harvester can continue to wander around and find raw materials for as long as they're willing to invest the time. There might be a way to curtail this, but I can't think of one that will do that without sucking all the fun out of harvesting. Supply is a function of number of players that want to harvest, increasing over time. It is also accumulative: items in-game that are not destroyed could theoretically be transferred to other players, providing the same value as a newly-crafted bit of gear.

 

If a player really only needs one weapon and one piece of armor per slot, demand is a flat multiple of number of players. Theme park MMOs get around this with soul binding and a crushing level grind, which I think we would agree is a bad and undesirable solution (and also, does not jibe with what we've heard thus far about Crowfall).

 

So, yeah, I guess "infinite" was a little hyperbolic. But as long as supply is continuously increasing and demand is largely flat, supply is effectively unlimited, which should have the end result of continuously depressing prices.

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This sounds all great on paper, but how does this factor in TIME.  Most people don't have hours and hours of time to get a party together and get a party going to go to a quarry that is in a dangerous location to grab the raw materials, then time involved going back to town, time involved crafting etc..  Add to that , party members will log off and ruin your adventure of aquiring the materials.  Is this actually realistic in that sense?

 

If this will require significant amounts of time in every step involved, this is going to be a huge failure, and its going to turn people away.

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This sounds all great on paper, but how does this factor in TIME.  Most people don't have hours and hours of time to get a party together and get a party going to go to a quarry that is in a dangerous location to grab the raw materials, then time involved going back to town, time involved crafting etc..  Add to that , party members will log off and ruin your adventure of aquiring the materials.  Is this actually realistic in that sense?

 

If this will require significant amounts of time in every step involved, this is going to be a huge failure, and its going to turn people away.

That is what guilds exist for.  It takes a matter of minutes to get a group together and roll out when you're a part of a guild.  From there, if someone needs to leave for one reason or another, it's as simple as asking for someone else to come and replace them. 

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I really like the server design, as this is something I have been looking forward to for many years... a lot of companies hinted at designs similar but never delivered. So thank you for finally doing so..

 

The crafting looks generic, and thats good.. for now. I am not sure what kind of crafting I really enjoy anymore... I know Dransik, or Ashen Empires now, had a similarly neat system.

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This sounds all great on paper, but how does this factor in TIME.  Most people don't have hours and hours of time to get a party together and get a party going to go to a quarry that is in a dangerous location to grab the raw materials, then time involved going back to town, time involved crafting etc..  Add to that , party members will log off and ruin your adventure of aquiring the materials.  Is this actually realistic in that sense?

 

If this will require significant amounts of time in every step involved, this is going to be a huge failure, and its going to turn people away.

I think it would be sufficient to hire NPC's and set them to a resource gathering task (mining, farming, fishing, etc.) They gather enough to fill your containers (Wagon in the concept art) over time, but you should be able to set them going and do other things. More collectors would gather faster, and a PC toon would gather faster than an NPC. Even your guard PC might be able to patrol or hide on overwatch and the game notify you when you see an intruder. That Druid priestess might be able to use nature to help watch for intruders too. Maybe we can split up the task by fortifying the resource site into a redoubt. Then party 1 can  run the lightly-laden wagon with supplies out to the site. a larger group fortifies the site at all times, and party 2 runs the fully-laden wagon back to town. Once the resource gets to town, a player banks it until a crafter is ready to use it. 

Crafting should be a time sink for the toons instead of the players also, as much as possible. Let the crafters choose just what each part of an item will look like and be made of, but then let the crafter PC just start his toon creating the item. The crafter toon would be unavailable for the required amount of time, but the player should be able to do whatever he wants while the toon is busy crafting. Interrupting the toon would lose all progress and may require some extra gold to restart (for incidentals), but the main resources needed should still be available either to restart the item creation process or for crafting something else.  


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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(snip)
 
As I mentioned yesterday, from this point on the information drops are going to get more meaty and interesting. Next week, we'll talk about the "yang" that couples with this economic "yin" -- the resource layer that drives the strategic territorial conquest system.
 
Thanks, and see you on the forums!
 
Todd
ACE

 

 

I've read that interview at mmorpg.com and so far like it, thanks for the information. What I'm really missing though is: what about the actual CRAFTING. What is described is the component/ressource selection. But the crafting itself? Is that sadly again a button hit and that is it?

Because I'm nuts about crafting and usually this is the most overlooked part of the gameplay, fighter get a "game", crafter get ... sorting basically. I'm missing a MMO where the concepts of actual crafting are picked up again, ideally similar to A Tale in the Desert, where you manipulate a 3D object to mimic a prototyp for example in gem cutting or blacksmithing. Or something like Vanguard had, where you have a certain number of action points, 3 stages of creation, accidents and you have to spent you points wisely, increase the progress, increase the quality, try both, decrease negative effects - but if you run out of points before hitting 100% progress that is it, no item and ressources gone.

That is crafting beyond mere sorting of ressources. Will Crowfall have anything like it?

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What I loved is the crafting and the inventory. The crafting thing is pretty self-explanatory, but the inventory is just so wonderfully created. I mean, the items sit there a bit more realistically, taking up more space, if they're bigger, and less space, if they're smaller.

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This sounds all great on paper, but how does this factor in TIME.  Most people don't have hours and hours of time to get a party together and get a party going to go to a quarry that is in a dangerous location to grab the raw materials, then time involved going back to town, time involved crafting etc..  Add to that , party members will log off and ruin your adventure of aquiring the materials.  Is this actually realistic in that sense?

 

If this will require significant amounts of time in every step involved, this is going to be a huge failure, and its going to turn people away.

 

 

I suppose an experienced craftsman won't be gathering the hard-to-get raw matterials himself.. 

Logic dictates that adventurers venture into the mines, gather materials along with the rest of the loot and sell them to the crafters.

 

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Thank you for vote of confidence!  Sincerely.  

 

I understand that it's really, really easy to be skeptical, especially since the game of "rampant speculation", paints a fuzzy picture (by design.)  

 

At the very beginning of this process, I said : look, if you aren't interested, just come back at the end and we'll tell you everything.  We decided to release the information this way because we figured there would be a subset of people who would find the REVEAL itself entertaining.  and our job, as game designers, is to entertain you.  I think (?) it was the right call.  (I'll let you know for sure once it's over.)

 

As an unexpected side benefit, it gives us a chance to reevaluate our ideas based on your conjecture and feedback.   Almost everything has held up really well, and we've only made a few adjustments.  That said, I'm sure that we will make many more as the community grows and the picture becomes more clear.

 

Crowfall is not going to be "the greatest game of all time."  Crowfall isn't going to be "the next WOW killer" -- if such a thing even exists.

 

...but Crowfall IS going to be different.  and over the next 30 days, we're going to prove that to you.

 

Todd

ACE

 

Please, once you released the info, tell us what you changed because of community input. :) And you are right. It's an entertaining way of releasing info, especially the when we only had that few pic one or two weeks ago and everyone was speculating and telling the community about the ideas etc. Just everyone was hmm, create fantasy in their head :P (don't know the word for it)

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