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freeze

Friendly Fire isn't something you tack on at the end...

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If no Friendly Fire game will become a huge nutcup of zergs just fist punching their keyboards. Doubt its gonna happen tho every skill has a big unmissable aoe right now. Necroking ftw.

 

inb4 lots of replies from baddies that love no ff.

Edited by wor

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Friendly fire could work in the inner bands.  It will not work (well) in the outer bands as the griefing/team killing would be legend.

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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On 6/2/2017 at 8:25 AM, bahamutkaiser said:

Why doesn't ACE just do what they originally advertised? 

They did not advertise "100% Friendly Fire" combat. 

What they did advertise was a "Free-for-All" political ruleset. Different things.


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2 hours ago, miraluna said:

They did not advertise "100% Friendly Fire" combat. 

What they did advertise was a "Free-for-All" political ruleset. Different things.

I make words mean whatever I want!

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8 hours ago, miraluna said:

They did not advertise "100% Friendly Fire" combat. 

What they did advertise was a "Free-for-All" political ruleset. Different things.

They advertised friendly fire combat, dancing around semantics to evade the authentic definition of friendly fire is politics, only 100% friendly fire is friendly fire. It's kind of like "99% right", aka wrong.

They even made a dodgy response piece after the fact denying that friendly fire was out and that certain modes might need adjusted friendly fire inclusions in order to reduce grieving. Let's not participate in revisionist history to alleviate false claims. 


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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On 6/1/2017 at 2:18 PM, VIKINGNAIL said:

The bigger question is why you are so afraid of it?  I think a very rational side has suggested it be tried when the game is well-optimized.  You seem like you are begging for it never to come into existence at all. 

I don't think crowfall will ever be very optimized, at least not to the point where FF will work properly in conjunction with everything else. It seems he's more against BAD FF and not so much the idea of FF. If the aiming functionality and ability schema was more like DFO I'd be all for FF being dropped into the game. It's clear there was little to no consideration given to FF in crowfall, just look at the abilities and you can clearly see that. I don't expect the devs to walk those changes back or change them on a per ruleset basis either. That's way too much work.

On 6/14/2017 at 6:42 AM, bahamutkaiser said:

They advertised friendly fire combat, dancing around semantics to evade the authentic definition of friendly fire is politics, only 100% friendly fire is friendly fire. It's kind of like "99% right", aka wrong.

That's quite an asinine argument. Half a cup of water is still a cup of water. Partial FF (like we have right now with group immunity) is still FF. At no point was unrestricted FF an absolute. The devs have said on numerous occasions that they feel that FF wouldn't be good for the game, they didn't fashion the abilities with it in mind.

The lack of FF in the game shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. I called this literally 1.5-2 years ago, even made a thread laying out WHY it wouldn't happen (the abilities being the biggest reason). You remember that thread? The one where I challenged you to introduce FF into a game with those aforementioned factors?

The chickens have come home to roost it seems.

Edited by Helix

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On 6/2/2017 at 11:25 AM, bahamutkaiser said:

Why doesn't ACE just do what they originally advertised? 

??? Yeah, why did they ever take out voxels and root motion and extra character slots and archetypes and forgemasters and legionnaires and stalkers? DELIVER WHAT YOU PROMISED US, ACE, AND DON'T YOU DARE CHANGE ONE SINGLE THING ABOUT IT OR I WILL WALK. -shakes fist-

Edit: are you for real right now?

Edited by goose
is this even real life?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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12 minutes ago, Helix said:

I don't think crowfall will ever be very optimized, at least not to the point where FF will work properly in conjunction with everything else. It seems he's more against BAD FF and not so much the idea of FF. If the aiming functionality and ability schema was more like DFO I'd be all for FF being dropped into the game. It's clear there was little to no consideration given to FF in crowfall, just look at the abilities and you can clearly see that. I don't expect the devs to walk those changes back or change them on a per ruleset basis either. That's why too much work.

 

FF could work fine now, the only problem is that the average skill-level of the testers isn't that high and the complaining wouldn't be worth enabling it right now. 

They simply need to wait until the game is closer to release and let it rip. 

All they literally need to do is turn FF on when the game is in a later beta phase and let the players figure out if they like it or not.  If there are enough players to justify it then that should be their hardcore ruleset, not the softcore group immunity we have now.

There's no reason dregs should be softened for players who can't coordinate or aim their abilities with FF in mind.


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1 hour ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

FF could work fine now, the only problem is that the average skill-level of the testers isn't that high and the complaining wouldn't be worth enabling it right now. 

They simply need to wait until the game is closer to release and let it rip. 

All they literally need to do is turn FF on when the game is in a later beta phase and let the players figure out if they like it or not.  If there are enough players to justify it then that should be their hardcore ruleset, not the softcore group immunity we have now.

There's no reason dregs should be softened for players who can't coordinate or aim their abilities with FF in mind.


FF could work due to the fact that intuition belongs to positive observations

Orderliness gives rise to sub empirical mortality and if ACE holds that to be true then they should let it rip once the servers go live with 24/7 testing. The future self interacts with reckless belonging. I believe the issue of friendly fire hinges on the fact that interdependence is rooted in irrational experiences

The secret of the friendly fire shapes subtle external reality. If there are not enough players to justify it then that they should just get rid of it completely and not even think of it until launch. When talking about this with my good buddy @Jah he made a good point saying "Perceptual reality is mirrored in the expansion of possibilities".

The dregs could have both a hardcore rule-set and then a slightly softer rule-set. Because you know what they say, "The mind fascinates mortal acceptance". 


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1 hour ago, Tark said:


FF could work due to the fact that intuition belongs to positive observations

Orderliness gives rise to sub empirical mortality and if ACE holds that to be true then they should let it rip once the servers go live with 24/7 testing. The future self interacts with reckless belonging. I believe the issue of friendly fire hinges on the fact that interdependence is rooted in irrational experiences

The secret of the friendly fire shapes subtle external reality. If there are not enough players to justify it then that they should just get rid of it completely and not even think of it until launch. When talking about this with my good buddy @Jah he made a good point saying "Perceptual reality is mirrored in the expansion of possibilities".

The dregs could have both a hardcore rule-set and then a slightly softer rule-set. Because you know what they say, "The mind fascinates mortal acceptance". 

This is a highly convoluted answer to an other wise simple premise.

Do abilities respect and function within a game with friendly fire? Yes? Add it. No? Limit or remove. FF will ultimately be fashioned around abilities and not the other way around.

There are a ton of abilities, disciplines and even classes that I believe wouldn't function well in a full FF environment. I doubt it's the developers desire to reduce these classes to mediocrity in certain rule sets. We might very well end up in a rule set where only ranged characters are preferable because of full FF. Doesn't sound desirable in the least.

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20 hours ago, Tark said:


FF could work due to the fact that intuition belongs to positive observations

Orderliness gives rise to sub empirical mortality and if ACE holds that to be true then they should let it rip once the servers go live with 24/7 testing. The future self interacts with reckless belonging. I believe the issue of friendly fire hinges on the fact that interdependence is rooted in irrational experiences

The secret of the friendly fire shapes subtle external reality. If there are not enough players to justify it then that they should just get rid of it completely and not even think of it until launch. When talking about this with my good buddy @Jah he made a good point saying "Perceptual reality is mirrored in the expansion of possibilities".

The dregs could have both a hardcore rule-set and then a slightly softer rule-set. Because you know what they say, "The mind fascinates mortal acceptance". 

You guys.  :D

 


“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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20 hours ago, Tark said:


FF could work due to the fact that intuition belongs to positive observations

Orderliness gives rise to sub empirical mortality and if ACE holds that to be true then they should let it rip once the servers go live with 24/7 testing. The future self interacts with reckless belonging. I believe the issue of friendly fire hinges on the fact that interdependence is rooted in irrational experiences

The secret of the friendly fire shapes subtle external reality. If there are not enough players to justify it then that they should just get rid of it completely and not even think of it until launch. When talking about this with my good buddy @Jah he made a good point saying "Perceptual reality is mirrored in the expansion of possibilities".

The dregs could have both a hardcore rule-set and then a slightly softer rule-set. Because you know what they say, "The mind fascinates mortal acceptance". 

Nope, they just need to let it rip when the game is more polished and you have a larger tester base with more skilled players.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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On 6/16/2017 at 5:52 PM, VIKINGNAIL said:

Nope, they just need to let it rip when the game is more polished and you have a larger tester base with more skilled players.

Anyway I`ve not seen Freeze for a year here and I doubt he is here, but I remember him since 2003 in Shadowbane on the EU Damnation in Shadowbane server and the SD guild with Beliar. It`s an old thread which should be closed, but I still agree with Freeze - it`s exetremely difficult especially when you`ve so many different power/ability combination that a mechanic like friendly fire should be part of the core design in Crowfall. This topic was created in 2015 guys.. 

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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Based on the game mechanics, action combat and the pace of combat we've had, adding in friendly fire in a basic form would be disastrous and make so many abilities and group compositions worthless/extremely difficult to use.

 

I really don't think friendly fire adds that much to the game - it will make the game 100x more complicated to balance. So I'm hoping they skip it!


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It's a pre alpha game, they are suppose to experiment with different gameplay and ability types to come up with what they advertised, not mire in their initial attempts. 

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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On 17/06/2017 at 3:49 PM, taroskin said:

Based on the game mechanics, action combat and the pace of combat we've had, adding in friendly fire in a basic form would be disastrous and make so many abilities and group compositions worthless/extremely difficult to use.

 

I really don't think friendly fire adds that much to the game - it will make the game 100x more complicated to balance. So I'm hoping they skip it!

Would it not be disastrous to NOT try it during testing? Despite its difficulties! Soft launch must be priority and I guess FF = lots of work however it's got to be worth a test down the road.

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IDK, typically you test during production right? The delay is just to pacify expectations. 


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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On 11/21/2015 at 5:08 PM, Marth said:

People being able to kill teammates in PreAlpha would not look good for the game or people griefing streamers. It would put a negative image way to early on.  

This has a lot to do with it... ppl would freak out, even if we know already that different campaigns will have different rules and it may not be a "always" feature...


You Don't Stop Playing Games when You Get Old...

You Get Old When You Stop Playing Games!

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1 hour ago, znick said:

This has a lot to do with it... ppl would freak out, even if we know already that different campaigns will have different rules and it may not be a "always" feature...

Would make more sense.  Not sure how you could have friendly fire on a faction server--too much same faction griefing potential.  If FF is going to be in the game, it should probably depend on the ability and not be universal to all AOEs.

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On 6/1/2017 at 1:18 PM, VIKINGNAIL said:

I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen because ACE has yet to show the ability to optimize to a point where they can have precision attacks and good performance, but that's not a good thing for a game. 

That's my primary concern for CF (especially knowing how SB's performance was throughout its entire life, let alone at launch).  The only thing keeping me hopeful is people keep telling me they don't bother much with performance optimization until beta phases.


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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