Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
freeze

Friendly Fire isn't something you tack on at the end...

Recommended Posts

the ones who are constantly vocal have very little invested in this game

 

​So you're suggesting to buy in with 10 grand into this game to be taken seriously? Or are you talking about emotional investment; the likes of where your heart stops when the game doesn't succeed or something like that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread has so many different arguments going on at the same time O.o

 

Friendly fire should be the basis of the game.  You can't balance for both friendly fire and friendly immunity, and the Dregs is all friendly fire (seeing as there are no game-determined "friends") so doing anything else is silly.

 

Also, friendly fire is the easiest way for them to discourage a whole bunch of bad player behavior like zerging and actually promote skill in the game, so friendly fire should be in the game.

 

So there's that argument.

 

 

To the debate about whether friendly fire should be in the game now: hell no.  No, ff shouldn't be tacked on at the end, or with a few months left.  But until they have a few of the core mechanics in and functioning, FF would take what little sense there is to the tests right now and completely throw it out.  You'd go from some the community shouting "unplayable" to all of the community.  Which would be counterproductive, obviously.

 

Blair said it perfectly that ff at the current state of the game wouldn't just unbalance things, it wouldn't just make things "not fun."  It would completely fall apart.

 

 

ACE needs to get friendly fire in ASAP.  ACE needs to have friendly fire be a core mechanic of their game.  But that does not mean that the Hunger Dome should have friendly fire right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's an easy knob to turn on I guess it all comes down to what they are testing at the moment. I just don't like to see potentially wasted time making abilities that will need to be majorly overhauled because they didn't have the knob switched early on. If these are simple place holder abilities they slapped together easy peasy then ok no harm done, they can turn the knob any time they wish to start tackling abilities and FF. But it is my (and other's) opinion that since they are taking stats on abilities used and their effectiveness etc then right now they are keeping one eyeball on abilities but their main focus is probably server and client side bug fixes and smoothie juice. Even so, please turn the knob soon so all that precious information you're recording about abilties is actually representative of what the game will be, not fluffy hungerdome land.

 

Although now that I think about it FF in hungerdome land will skew their stats since the hunger will force everyone to hit eachother. Being my own Devils advocate here what the hell. Best case: turn the knob at the end of 1.1 so you can atleast get some stats (maybe have time stamps so you know what happens at the end of the game when everyone is killing each other). Most likely: 2.0 and new mechanic will be closer to real CF will be more suited to FF. Whiich is what I said before. Really we're just repeating ourselves here.

 

How bout them EKs?

Edited by dirtbag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Technically none of the "rules" we have seen for The Dregs are written in stone. However, The Dregs is not likely to ever be a factional, non-FFA, non-FF campaign in my opinion.  The core concept behind The Dregs is "highest risk, highest reward."

 

So you could define Dregs as 1 Winner with 100% reward and (Everyone - 1) with 0% reward?

 

That leaves the dregs open to have any team grouping, win condition, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you could define Dregs as 1 Winner with 100% reward and (Everyone - 1) with 0% reward?

 

That leaves the dregs open to have any team grouping, win condition, etc.

 

If you mean "1 person" when you say "1 winner" then no, that is not the current definition of the Dregs. ACE have specifically stated that guilds can win The Dregs.

 

There will indeed be teams in The Dregs, but they will be formed by players.


IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue isn't that FF is turned off right now, it's that abilities aren't being designed with it in mind.

 

Go go MS paint skills:

 

yrBaq1C.png

 

Attacks need to be designed so a player has a lot of control over where they're going to land so the damage only hits who he intends to. For melee weapons, that means a lot of thrusts and shorts slashes to the front without a huge windup. Harder hitting skills with a big windup should only cover the wind up into the impact, and not a full circle like a batter in a baseball game.

 

This system is also a lot more skillful because you don't just hit any enemy within 6 feet of you every time you push a button. You have to aim and he can try to stay outside of your attack animation.

 

Designing a lot of abilities that don't work in a FF environment is just a misuse of time and resources spent designing and animating them because they're going to have to be heavily altered or replaced entirely.

Edited by caffynated

OJN1n7E.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got an answer from the AMA:

 

How do you think Friendly Fire will work with the current combat system having a lot of AoE skills?

 

I'm hesitant to answer this one, because we have a pretty significant change coming down the pipe that will fundamentally effect how movement feels.

 
That said, your point about AoEs is valid. We are still committed to experimenting with FFA, and this may even require some changes to our targeting (decreasing diameters, narrowing cones, etc.) It will also require teams to change the way they approach engagement.
Edited by Canth

ZCcquVD.png

THE most active European Crowfall community. Join us now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got an answer from the AMA:

This is about the answer you would expect.  FF isn't something that must be at the very center of your game and that you must build around.  It is something you can easily add in with a few BALANCE tweaks here and there at most.  


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is about the answer you would expect.  FF isn't something that must be at the very center of your game and that you must build around.  It is something you can easily add in with a few BALANCE tweaks here and there at most.  

 

Yes, true. I didn't ask this questions to get an answer I didn't expect, but more to provide this community with an official answer so we can let this silly discussion rest.


ZCcquVD.png

THE most active European Crowfall community. Join us now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, true. I didn't ask this questions to get an answer I didn't expect, but more to provide this community with an official answer so we can let this silly discussion rest.

 

That was not an answer but merely circling around the topic. This whole thread is not about whether there will be FF but why it isn't tested at this point. The official answer was lacking but simple from tblair: "I suspect that introducing FF with the current state of things would cause even more of a freakout"

 

Yes, he means people like you Canth, who would run away in terror because FF would surpass your personal skill cap by 3 au.

Edited by Qbs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I suspect that introducing FF with the current state of things would cause even more of a freakout"

 

Yes, he means people like you Canth, who would run away in terror because FF would surpass your personal skill cap by 3 au.

 

 

I would guess he was talking about the state of the game rather than the state of players like Canth.


IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would guess he was talking about the state of the game rather than the state of players like Canth.

 

The sole existence of the Hunger Dome is because of the state of players, not because it is a perfect, top-of-the-line testing environment for combat. I've yet to see a FFA PvP mmo with friendly fire being added later and not from the beginning of player tests.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sole existence of the Hunger Dome is because of the state of players, not because it is a perfect, top-of-the-line testing environment for combat. I've yet to see a FFA PvP mmo with friendly fire being added later and not from the beginning of player tests.

No. Taken in context he was specifically referring to the state of the game's technology. I don't know many testers who support FF at this point. I ran with a few dregs guys last night and with the poor frames and laggy/slippery environment we were jesting about how horrible friendly fire would be right now. Infact we even did a minor test of it. One of the guys in our VOIP was the odd man out and ended up grouped with Oberon. We eventually ran into them and created an impromptu alliance. After a few minutes the frienemie stated in chat that he couldn't even get into the melee without being whalloped to oblivion. My response, "Yeah, this is too ridiculous. With the lag I can't even try aiming not to hit. I'm just trying my best to hit *something*"

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No. Taken in context he was specifically referring to the state of the game's technology. I don't know many testers who support FF at this point. I ran with a few dregs guys last night and with the poor frames and laggy/slippery environment we were jesting about how horrible friendly fire would be right now. Infact we even did a minor test of it. One of the guys in our VOIP was the odd man out and ended up grouped with Oberon. We eventually ran into them and created an impromptu alliance. After a few minutes the frienemie stated in chat that he couldn't even get into the melee without being whalloped to oblivion. My response, "Yeah, this is too ridiculous. With the lag I can't even try aiming not to hit. I'm just trying my best to hit *something*"

 

 

 

I'd have to agree with you here. Ideally let's spend a week or two getting the game to a point where people can actually play it without it crashing or getting one-shot by mobs, or running at 300+ ping, then layer in the FF testing. The idea of needing to aim precisely to only hit a small target in front of you right now with all server-side actions is probably next to impossible for the majority of testers.

 

I agree they shouldn't leave it out of Hunger Dome entirely and I agree that the game will be better in the end with FF. However, with the game in it's current state it would be bedlam in there if they turned it on this early.

Edited by alestorm

Alestorm MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However, with the game in it's current state it would be bedlam in there if they turned it on this early.

 

Nah, we're just carebears that don't have any skill. /s  :rolleyes:


ZCcquVD.png

THE most active European Crowfall community. Join us now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also kind of wonder how people see friendly fire.  

Are we looking for:

Everyone takes damage

or

Non-group members take damage

 

Given most of the game is in the context of factions or guilds, FF takes different meanings.   With the way the combat system currently works, it seems like having small groups (4-5) and damage be on anyone NOT grouped would be acceptable to me.  In a normal tab/targetting type MMO, I'd definitely prefer even hitting group members, but with this system I'm unsure - I'd have to try both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah, we're just carebears that don't have any skill. /s  :rolleyes:

 

Well, if others enjoy God`s Reach and factions, great - and it`s part of the core design as well though. And just like the shadows & the dregs with a different rule setting, which is usually based on difficulty (risk vs reward) and FF. 


MQfHl7c.png

Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...