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What Combat System Do You Prefer?


Combat System  

966 members have voted

  1. 1. What combat system do you want?

    • Tab Targetting
      196
    • Action Based (with hotbars)
      257
    • Action Based (withOUT hotbars)
      52
    • Action Based (Random Deck System)
      25
    • Action Based with Active Blocking
      372
    • Something totally different (Please post your reason below)
      67


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This is a prime example of why I think tab-targeting would be much more suitable for Crowfall, assuming it's a large-scale GvG game (which, given it's got the creative director of Shadowbane manning the helm, I see no reason why it wouldn't be).  A first or third-person action style of combat detracts from group play and puts too much emphasis on the individual.  I'm personally a HUGE fan of the Souls series, and while it's amazing for the small scale 1v1, 2v1, etc. encounters you have in that game, it would not be very functional in a large scale GvG scenario.  Like Frobobo said above, Shadowbane's tab-targeting combat was oriented more around the composition of groups while still maintaining an interesting solo/small-scale PvP realm.  Group composition required serious thought and consideration.  You couldn't just throw whatever you wanted into a group and expect to win.  Going even further, the success of a group was dependent on how well the members of that group meshed together and followed orders.  Knowing who to target and when to switch targets was vital to victory. 

 

All that being said, the individual does play an important role in group success or failure as well.  A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, after all.  If priests couldn't keep track of who needed healing or if the assassin shadowmantled (Heal blocked, in layman's terms) the wrong person, the group was doomed.  An action based system, especially one like in Chivalry or MB: Warband, would put too much focus on the individual.  None of us like those punk teenagers who boast about having the best K/D ratio and jerk off to how much better they think they are than everybody else, especially when they completely fail to take note of more important objectives than kills.  They don't mesh well with others, completely ignore the unsung heroes that kept them alive, like healers and other supports, and in general just bring headaches to the community. 

 

Commanding soldiers in an action-based MMO is like herding cats.  At the end of the day, there's not much to be done other than just let them loose on the enemy and hope for the best.  It becomes less about how well you can structure and coordinate the group and more about how well your soldiers can clean house.  In a tab-target MMO, the role of target/shot caller is a very important one that needs to be filled.  Identifying priority targets and being able to communicate your orders clearly and concisely to your soldiers is paramount.  If you fail to do this, or your soldiers don't listen to you, your group is doomed to failure. 

 

As far as the skill argument is concerned, I think most people are caught in an apples-to-oranges argument.  Both tab-targeting and action-based combat styles require skill, but different kinds of skillsets altogether.  Action-based combat is, once again, more focused on the skill of the individual.  Tab-targeting is meant to be focused more on the skill and coordination of a large group.  That (and hardware/software limitations of the time, I'm sure) is why Shadowbane used such a system.  Most other MMORPGs simply adopted a similar system because it is easy to code and balance AND works better in a genre that can be plagued by latency issues.  That said, they're -MMO-RPGs.  They're meant to be played with groups of several friends.  Those looking for a solo or small-scale experience are playing the wrong types of games if they expect MMORPGs to be reliant exclusively on their reflexes alone.

All this talk about the coordination in tab target games, the team efforts and so on... all these things just take more skill in an action based game, and to cooridnate you need well trained soldiers(players), good leaders.. and more advanced tactics can be employed. No matter how you put it action based is the more advanced and will take more skill in all aspects.. strategy, individual skill, coordination, leadership..

 

 

edit,

yeah forgot (from early january):

[18:26] <@tullyackland> <Krej> will there be tab targeting?

[18:26] <RS_Navlaan> the moment of truth...

[18:26] <@tullyackland> We'll be showing off our combat in a couple of weeks, still working on a few details

[18:26] <RS_Navlaan> !!!!

[18:26] <RS_Navlaan> what a tease

[18:26] <@tullyackland> basically, you'll see

 

 

... which just sounds like this game will be tab targeting sadly

Edited by krej
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Crossposting from the other combat thread:   As far as combat goes, there are a few things which I find to be very important:   1. Ditch the WoW model. We're tired of "spell based" combat where yo

I think a lot if it depends on what they are going to be doing with the game.   If it's a more strategy oriented war game, like shadowbane, then I honestly think tab targeting is superior.  The game

I personally would love to see a different form of Turn based system.

... which just sounds like this game will be tab targeting sadly

 

I will be very sad in they really go for a tab targeting combat, at least they can use a pseudo system like GW2 or Blade & Soul with auto-targeting and physical projectiles (that don't follow the target even if it move).

 

Cross fingers for a true action combat like DF or MO.

Edited by kdchan

Archduchess Alice

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I will be very sad in they really go for a tab targeting combat, at least they can use a pseudo system like GW2 or Blade & Soul with auto-targeting and physical projectiles (that don't follow the target even if it move).

 

Cross fingers for a true action combat like DF or MO.

 

FPS is no more "real action" than any other action games. It's like saying a game like Ninja Gaiden isn't a "true action combat" game.

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I wouldn't mind seeing another take on a slower combat system with fewer actions per second than most tab targeting or action combat games. 

 

I imagine this looks like spells with long cast times (3 second cast for most spells) and targeting based auto-attacks or hold/click to attack for melee and archer classes with limited ability use (cooldowns, high fuel costs, specific triggers, specific use cases). 

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I enjoy both, however there needs to be some limitations if it turns out to be action. debuffs for attacking while sprinting/jump for example. collision detection is a must as well.

Edited by dreaden
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I think soft targeting is best for an MMO. TAB targeting forces players to hide in a sea of players. Soft Targeting requires you to look AT a particular character to attack them, so if other's are in your way you can't just tab through. Your enemy can't either.

 

This system and any other "action" system requires object collision between players so there is no stacking in the first place and you can literally block/protect people because you get to jump in front.

 

Besides soft targeting I don't think you need a complete action-based system to have a compelling combat. This simple addition may not require twitch, but it requires more awareness. Complete action combat for such a LARGE open world game starts to get into server issues with hit boxes and the like.

 

also OBJECT COLLISION!

 

Just as long as they don't DUMB DOWN customization to appease people who want an "equal playing field eSport action game" I'll be fine.

Edited by orious13
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I would be ecstatic to see something similar to Wildstar's combat system.  I've talked to a lot of PvPers who also feel that Wildstar has the most skill-based combat system.  Tab targeting is too outdated in my opinion. Gimme dashes, dodges, and movement-based action combat! :)

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All this talk about the coordination in tab target games, the team efforts and so on... all these things just take more skill in an action based game, and to cooridnate you need well trained soldiers(players), good leaders.. and more advanced tactics can be employed. No matter how you put it action based is the more advanced and will take more skill in all aspects.. strategy, individual skill, coordination, leadership..

 

 

edit,

yeah forgot (from early january):

[18:26] <@tullyackland> <Krej> will there be tab targeting?

[18:26] <RS_Navlaan> the moment of truth...

[18:26] <@tullyackland> We'll be showing off our combat in a couple of weeks, still working on a few details

[18:26] <RS_Navlaan> !!!!

[18:26] <RS_Navlaan> what a tease

[18:26] <@tullyackland> basically, you'll see

 

 

... which just sounds like this game will be tab targeting sadly

Let's hope not brother.

 

+1 about everything else you said though

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Tab targeting isn't bad if it uses fighting game mechanics.  Fighting games are automatically target locked on your opponent, but if you honestly think there is no skill to a fighting game...you're just a custard clown, not even going to sugar coat this one.  "Tab-targeting" doesn't automatically mean WoW clone.

 

Regardless, I doubt CF will have twitch combat.  Massive sieges as they want make it imprudent.

"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

cdinUTh.png

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Regardless, I doubt CF will have twitch combat.  Massive sieges as they want make it imprudent.

 

GW2's siege combat works well enough.  I don't agree that siege mechanics and action (?) combat don't mesh.  I think if anything, when you're attacking several targets / a group of people, it's more prudent to be able to easily move between targets in a way that pure tab targeting doesn't really allow.

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I have no idea what tab targeting is, I'm fine with just point and click an enemy to attack.

Tab targeting is when you can automatically select and lock onto a player..

What me and I think most are against when talking about tab targeting is any kind of projetiles/spells.. attacks.. anything.. finding their target automatically or locking onto anyhting.

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I lowed DAoC combo system - think if you evolved on that, you could make a really nice combat system,

 

As I recall it DAoC had tab targeting - which I am also a big fan of - but if you make it action based, and combo - the combo's would be even hardrt to complete, thus creating a bigger advantage for the "better" player

 

Active block and parry of course - again with follow up combo-possibilities

 

Also playing Shroud of the Avatar at the moment, and their DECK system is actually pretty cool once you get used to it

The extra nice thing with the deck system. is that it is not possible to have an optimal rotation, since you never know what is available for you - don’t care if it’s a deck system, but something that pushes players away from "the optimal rotation" would be nice

 

Shroud of the Avatar, also have the possibilities to stack attacks, 2-3 of the same attacks to one more powerful version - or mix 2 attacks into a new "better" one - kind of a combo you could say - which I also think is a nice thought

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I voted tab targeting, just because I would like to see a refined version of the friend & foe dual targeting of Vanguard.

 

Whatever it is, please no button spam.

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I really like that my choice is at the top, action based with active blocking, however, I do like a combination of everything. Being able to bind a key to target the closest bad guy is nice, having multiple abilities to take down your for is a huge plus, but also to dodge around abilities and block with a shield is something most MMOs don't get right. I hope we're seeing something amazing happening here.

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