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kroked

Ping should be Governed

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After playing on servers at various pings, I have discovered that the lower my ping, the more I succeed.  I think this is not just due to the controls being more difficult, but that lower ping players get more inputs per second.

 

The server should limit pings for all players to some minimum, so that everyone generally gets the same number of 'inputs per second', and round trip latency should not affect damage per second.

Edited by kroked

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Ping doesn't translate into "inputs per second". Higher ping means your input takes longer to be processed, but you're given as many potential actions per second as any other player unless your packet loss is really bad. The advantage of lower ping is that you can respond to enemy actions more quickly since you see them sooner than a player with high ping.

Edited by recatek

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Ping doesn't translate into "inputs per second". Higher ping means your input takes longer to be processed, but you're given as many potential actions per second as any other player unless your packet loss is really bad. The advantage of lower ping is that you can respond to enemy actions more quickly since you see them sooner than a player with high ping.

 

Not 'processed', but it takes longer for your input to travel the distance from your computer to the server.  Any number of reasons could affect it and nearly none of those can be ArtCraft's fault.


An old and grumpy gamer who should have grown up years ago.

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had a big old post for this. 

 

 

But what's the point? The viciously carebear will rage report my post and then give their pet anonmods in their IRC channel of love a quick tip to assign me some warning points and etc. 

 

 

 

So screw the public feedback. It's entirely too [real talk] for the capabilities of this forums to understand.  I'll keep my feedback to emailing it straight to ACE since I can't trust any of these pathetic excuses for Volunteer mods.  At least I know when I send my feedback to support I'll get a god honest response without all the fluff. 

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After playing on servers at various pings, I have discovered that the lower my ping, the more I succeed.  I think this is not just due to the controls being more difficult, but that lower ping players get more inputs per second.

 

The server should limit pings for all players to some minimum, so that everyone generally gets the same number of 'inputs per second', and round trip latency should not affect damage per second.

Speed of car =/= amount of cars traveling. 

IF game uses TCP, everyone has same amount of inputs per second, if game uses UDP , than higher ping should have slightly lesser amount of inputs per second.

 

Its really down to how they handle networking, ive seen games that provie smooth and flawless experiance at 100 ping, ive seen games that feel terrible above 80

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Actions per second and ping aren't necessarily correlated.   There's a lot more to it than that.    If you want to help people with worse ping times, I'd think you'd want to allow people to queue up their next action so it fires as soon as it's ready, rather than waiting to see that it's completed.

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had a big old post for this. 

 

 

But what's the point? The viciously carebear will rage report my post and then give their pet anonmods in their IRC channel of love a quick tip to assign me some warning points and etc. 

 

 

 

So screw the public feedback. It's entirely too [real talk] for the capabilities of this forums to understand.  I'll keep my feedback to emailing it straight to ACE since I can't trust any of these pathetic excuses for Volunteer mods.  At least I know when I send my feedback to support I'll get a god honest response without all the fluff. 

Show me where the bad, bad mods touched you on the doll.


"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.. and gerbils on crowcaine."

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Not 'processed', but it takes longer for your input to travel the distance from your computer to the server.  Any number of reasons could affect it and nearly none of those can be ArtCraft's fault.

 

I was simplifying. By 'takes longer to be processed' I mean that it takes longer between when you press a button on your screen, and when the server changes the state of the world to account for your input. Then it takes even longer for the server to tell you how the world changed (though this is somewhat hidden by local prediction).

Edited by recatek

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Ping doesn't translate into "inputs per second". Higher ping means your input takes longer to be processed, but you're given as many potential actions per second as any other player unless your packet loss is really bad. The advantage of lower ping is that you can respond to enemy actions more quickly since you see them sooner than a player with high ping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r3v_3X-2ps depends on the netcode but for sure time travelled calculates into DPS loss as well.

 

They could add in an artifical handicap but this would probably most likely be exploited, this is why i never added a suggestion for this because someone is always going to lose out.

Edited by billybowl

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Perhaps I should not have used the word 'Ping'.  Ping isn't even used for anything if you get nit picky.  

But, as the video above demonstrates, and as I have seen in many sucky games, the distance from the home server affects gameplay dramatically.

If you consider that most gear in these games gives like a 5% advantage, then this sort of advantage from server distance is overwhelming. I play games from Hawaii, I have to try to compensate for this in too many games.

 

I also know that proper MMO design can equalize all players, because inputs can be staged and governed, and the client side controller smooths it out. This also makes the game nearly immune to lag because it is already designed for the worst case scenario.  The client side controller (as Artcraft calls it) can measure the average latency and back-calculate it so everyone is the same.  It can be done, and it should be done.  Otherwise guilds in Oregon and Singapore are going to somehow always have the best players.

Edited by kroked

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It depends, there are games that instanteniously register your actions on your client to provide smooth experiance with 0 ping felt on your character, unfortunantly this could lead to de-syncs if your actions cannot be registered by the server.

 

So, updating the client totally dependant on server is the most fail-proof one and very smooth given the pings are low , updating your character immediantly and updating rest of the world dependant on server (no other way-ish) gives you the smoothest experiance but can cause de-syncs, people teleporting, im sure you guys can recognize these.

 

I personally prefer first one , since i rarely get ping above 90 in servers hosted in EU. 

Edited by Eren

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If all you're really saying is that the game should be playable at higher (but reasonable) pings, then sure - I don't think anyone would disagree with you.  This is especially important since we don't know how big of a success the game will be, so the number of servers may not be as big as desired.  If you want to make the game worse for everyone for the few, though, I'm not for it.

Edited by yamix

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NO!

 

no compensation or anything for higher ping.

If you live in a 3rd world country then deal with its internet. Not my problem.

 

stop making me "suffer" for your poorly made socksty internet.

I agree, my country is between a developed country and 3rd world country (2nd world country perhaps? :P )  but even i dont want such advantage. Just because i cannot enjoy smoothness of low ping that should not force everyone to suffer same fate.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r3v_3X-2ps depends on the netcode but for sure time travelled calculates into DPS loss as well.

 

They could add in an artifical handicap but this would probably most likely be exploited, this is why i never added a suggestion for this because someone is always going to lose out.

 

Interesting. It looks like it's due to packet loss or ignoring late packets, where the server isnt receiving some of your "I just fired" messages. Some of it is unavoidable with high ping and packet loss, but that video looks like some bad netcode isn't helping either.

 

Either way, there's nothing the game can do about it. If you have high ping and a lot of packet loss, you're stuck with less input information being received by the server, and it being received later than your opponent. There's nothing the game can do about it, and handicapping other players for the sake of the lowest common denominator isn't how the business works.

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Yea this is just a dumb idea. Why make the game less intentionally responsive to the masses just so they have to feel like what it's like to play from Hawaii?

 

I'm sure they will have some sort of lag compensation (most online games do) but to specifically make the majority of people's game experience equally as poor as someone on a shoddy connection is stupid.

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I hope they implement some sort of lag compensation, since players with bad ping can and do often get advantages or disadvantages which affects other players, however I have very good internet, and I'd hate to suffer just because someone doesn't have as fast a connection.

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